Hard News: When that awful thing happens
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What? You've been mindless since November 2007? :)
Dash it all yes.
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Like Russell’s mother, I turned the media machine off. The standard of journalism is substandard, there was a lot of enthusiasm for the words like cordon, arsenal, lock down, etc, etc What little substance there was quickly got lost in BS.
The 24 hours news cycle is often twenty-three hours of drivel and one hour of news.
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Swine FluWhen executing a search warrant on a drug dealer’s house I would have thought it would be standard practice for the police to be armed.
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Jan was 51. He doesn't sound like a timebomb when you hear his friends talk about him. He hadn't exploded before that .He was an angry man , who had far too many weapons and snapped due to policing methods that let's face it fuck off a lot of peolpe off.
Huh?
Jeremy, I've seen and heard plenty in the news to indicate that he was, at the very least, quick to anger, and someone you didn't cross. His friends seem oddly blithe about him tipping into a homicidal rage because someone came to his house.
On other hand, I haven't seen any evidence that the warrant executed at his house was unusual or improper in any way.
On the other hand people have suggested in this discussion that all search warrants should be executed as if there were maximum peril. Quite apart from the cost, that would engender an enormous amount of ill-will amongst the public and in the media. It would be bad.
That said, I pretty much agree with Mikaere's argument on cannabis law reform. It just don't think it's got much to to with the "methods" employed by police in this case.
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That said, I pretty much agree with Mikaere's argument on cannabis law reform. It just don't think it's got much to to with the "methods" employed by police in this case.
Yeah I Agree. Police did a damn good job. Does seem strange though that they were searching for cannabis and not an illegal weapon collection.
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When executing a search warrant on a drug dealer’s house I would have thought it would be standard practice for the police to be armed.
Why? It's frequently unnecessary, especially for low-end pot dealers who aren't otherwise known to be dangerous. As said before, arming up for a warrant isn't just a case of a couple of plods strapping on Glocks and knocking on the door. It's a highly organised exercise involving planning, coordination, and a goodly degree of command and control. It's not ad hoc, because that's a good way to have cops shooting at other cops. It's also not a small-scale event. Look at some of the news articles about coordinated armed raids across a city, and count up the numbers involved. The average is about 10 per property, sometimes more, and that's accounting for some degree of economisation through scale by shifting oversight back up the chain of command.
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Does seem strange though that they were searching for cannabis and not an illegal weapon collection.
Having read that he had "a room in the garage" for growing dope, I wouldn't be in the least surprised if he had a hydroponics operation that caught the eye of his power supplier.
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A S- this use of the word 'arsenal' interests me too.
I have
.177 airpistol (good for starlings)
.22 air rifle (rabbits, possums at night)
.22 5-shot Ruger (ditto, daytime use)
.22 & 10 gauge rifle/shotgun combo (family heirloom)
.303 WW1 vintage rifle (ditto)
12 gauge shotgun-I'm sure journalists would label this an arsenal (it's all in a double-locked police-approved gun-cabinet that is bolted into concrete.)
And if they -hypothetical journalists- knew about my edged weapon collection! Over 170 items, from mere to a 17thC Austrian boar spear!
(Kept at various secure localities...)I've collected knives et al since I was a small child: they ( rocks & sticks) were our first tools as a species - and if you dont think a flint knife is a *very* effective tool, well, I can demonstrate?
So: arsenal.
One person's set of cooking knives (o, remiss of me! I havent added those in!) & a couple of practical killing tools - guns- is an arsenal, to some folk. Others see it as entirely practical toolkit for country living.I am a gun-licence holder. No licence is required to own a collection of knives (and other edged tools.)
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It just don't think it's got much to to with the "methods" employed by police in this case.
Yep .they just follow the rules (generally)If one thinks it's a bad law, go to your MP, write letters,tell them your thoughts.
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Islander, I have entirely new respect for you. You're a very dangerous woman, and I think it's my duty as a citizen of Jeremy's utopian society to dob you in to the appropriate authorities forthwith :P
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So: arsenal.
Maybe :)
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I guess it's possible that things might not have gone according to plan. Do you think it's possible that things could have gone according to plan?
It might've. But since we don't actually know whether the police sniper team had the opportunity to take that particular shot, I recommend that we both STFU at this point.
From my very limited knowledge of the situation and 'good' police procedure, I personally don't think they put a foot wrong at this point. But I guess it'll all come out in the wash.
Matt Poole: really enjoying your posts on this thread, BTW.
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Some observations.
This was not a routine drug bust ……….. from Jan’s point of view.
It might have been another ho – hum lets go fuck over a stoner/ pot grower lark by the 4 police men involved but these ‘routine’ drug searches are always anything but ‘routine’ to the poor mug who is on the receiving end of them. Nobody seems to be considering what these 'routine' warrents mean to the victims of them.
There is NO indication that Jan would have ‘unloaded’ on the police if they were not around at HIS house trying to fuck up HIS life. It seems more likely that he built up his arsenal was in response to a perceived threat from the mongrel mob …………………. It just happened to be another type of gang who invaded his house.
And nobody on these boards seems to have the imagination or comprehension of how the ‘war on drug users’ affects the psyche of those who deal and use illegal drugs.
I’ve heard dealers say they feel like the resistance ( from WWII ), and they don’t think of the police/germans as the good guys …………..The illegal status and persecution ( at world record rates ) of cannabis users in NZ DOES induce a siege like mentality in some users , some users are very angry that they are legally considered criminals for using a softer/safer drug than booze.
To pretend that Jan Moellers state of mind and spectacular end to his life had nothing to do with cannabis laws and bullshit searchs seems very divorced from reality to me ………………………………
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Matthew Poole - well, the local constable knows where I live...and who knows? The starlings & rabbits - and possums! - may be v. grateful :)
Sofie- I'd call it a rather usual set of equipment* for rural dwellers-
*except for the edged stuff. Maybe.
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I imagine that collection is necessary to protect your stash o single malts. :)
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(Drat! I've been sussed!)
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A S,
Islander, I'm a bit concerned about how an arsenal would be defined too. I already feel like a leper when anyone finds out I have a firearms license, even though most of my rifles are antiques, and I'd hate to be seen as some sort of crazy hoarder just to round it all out.
That will teach me for moving to the city... :-D
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As usual the thread has got way ahead of me ... but hang on a minute mate.
Shooting possums is not a very effective means of pest control, and ditto for stoats, rats and ginger.
I also think the myth of the kiwi outdoors bloke or good keen fisherman is rather heavy on the gun fire and bloke posing with large corpse.
I thought the cops did a great job of patience and restraint, and fully endorse the criticism of police association mouthpiece. The only person I want to see lasered.
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Nice typo.
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Shooting possums is not a very effective means of pest control
You just wait until the pine trees are in blossom, and possums come from miles around at night to feast on them, and you go out there with a big torch, or a 4WD with luverly big headlights, and pop them off.
Professional possum hunters do it all the time, as a means of pest control. Conservation minded folk employ them to do it, if they don't do the shooting themselves.
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A S,
Shooting possums is not a very effective means of pest control, and ditto for stoats, rats and ginger.
Ginger? I know redheads can be a bit short tempered sometimes, but I didn't know they'd been classified as pests!!
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Sofie- I'd call it a rather usual set of equipment* for rural dwellers-
I appreciate you revealing how common it is to use guns. We do not expect the police to have guns. we expect gangs to have a few and any hydro op in someones garage in a house with a gang issue will mean they want protection. Guns is what the gang know. guns is what Jan had to look after himself. IMO
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Bruce, the comment about shooting possums was made, way back on about page 1, in response to someone who asserted that all killing was equally and indistinguishably bad regardless of whether it referred to homicidal maniacs or recreational hunters killing a few rabbits or deer, or possums. It wasn't intended as a pest control strategy.
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Ginger?
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Sorry Islander, you are trying too hard. It sounds to me that you are a knife collector (me too) and own a working .22 and shotgun, you build it up like the kids used as reporters these days.
I see no problem in drawing up laws that distinguish between licensed dealers and private citizens. And between monitored competition club members and high powered citizens with convictions for drug dealing. And as a citizen who has more than once been exposed to house searches for drugs, and a citizen who has on occasion served time for my breaches of the law, I have no sympathy for those who cannot cope with the nasty day when the police knock on the door. If you cant do the time do not do the crime. Especially when you are a big boy of 51. But then I do not get into steroids, myself. -
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Bruce Thorpe - because I live in an area with a more-than-usually endangered species of kiwi, locals are provided with stoat TRAPS if requested. Only way of dealing to the little horrors (yep, I know beautiful little predators - in their place of origin.) You ever tried running over the little fukkers?
Same with rats: no sane local would ever try to shoot rats. We poison & trap them.
Shooting possums works very well for local area control: possums are quite territorial, and killing the ones predating your fruit trees produces a lull in the predation. Trust me. I've been doing it for for 35 years.
GINGERS? Some of my well-loved whanau are gingas! What *are* you suggesting?
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