Legal Beagle by Graeme Edgeler

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Legal Beagle: Kim Dotcom: Questions and Answers

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  • Sacha,

    The Press delivers a pretty firm editorial which is unimpressed with the Inspector General but concludes:

    The narrow focus was forced on Neazor because of the terms of reference drawn up by the Prime Minister. They had the advantage, from John Key's perspective, of producing a quick report and denying scrutiny of the wider issues, but the result will be continuing revelations. Dotcom promises that, and so do his effective lawyers.

    Another residual matter will dog the Government - Key's failure to take responsibility for his department's fundamental mistakes. They add to the perception of a politician not focused on the hard grind at his Beehive desk and too preoccupied with overseas travel, glad-handing and the smooching photo opportunity.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15741 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming,

    And so the Teapot Tape comes back to haunt Key.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1701 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to nzlemming,

    Long may it do so!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX, in reply to Sacha,

    Another residual matter will dog the Government - Key's failure to take responsibility for his department's fundamental mistakes.

    That this all stems from a "department's fundamental mistake" is improbable.

    We are only aware of this GCSB issue as KDC legal team pursued it - we have the Deputy Prime Minister signing a suppression order as a result - a revelation in itself.

    It is implausible that Key as Prime Minister; Minister in charge of the GCSB had no knowledge of the biggest combined operation (FBI/Police/SIS (GCSB)) culminating in a spectacular raid on a private citizen in his electorate.

    On balance it is not a hard stretch, or even a stretch at all, to consider the "illegal spying" as a deliberate action as opposed to a fundamental mistake.

    Key’s challenge is, “Prove it”.

    KDC’s legal team may be able to join the dots and if the case is abandoned or found in favour of KDC the basis of any settlement or resulting judgment will be suppressed on the basis of protecting the interests of national security.

    Key is likely to "win", in that he won't be held accountable - whether KDC is extradited or KDC’s case prevails - that really is a problem.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1157 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to DexterX,

    Key’s challenge is, “Prove it”.

    I was thinking of tweeting something similar over the weekend. Why are we granting this clown the benefit of doubt?

    A genuinely independent inquiry with broad scope by the Ombudsman or similarly trustworthy agency who can keep genuinely sensitive information secret seems warranted at the very least.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15741 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to DexterX,

    we have the Deputy Prime Minister signing a suppression order as a result – a revelation in itself.

    Actually not so much, IMO. Not revealing the involvement and output of the intelligence services isn't exactly a shocking development when we're talking about a court case where things will be public record, and that was the extent of the order that English signed: that the GCSB were involved, and what they gave to the Police, are not to be revealed. If it were the SIS, for whom such spying would've been legal (if properly authorised, and I have little doubt that Key would've signed the warrant), there would never have been the opportunity for this to blow up because the order would've been suppressing things that are entirely legitimate. It's only because it was the GCSB that we now know the order was signed and would've been protecting illegal activity.

    Question for Graeme: what's the status of that order in light of what we now know? Does it cease to be valid? Can the court overturn it? Or is it only ever an advisory notice to the court and the judge can ignore it or observe as they choose?

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3733 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Question for Graeme: what’s the status of that order in light of what we now know? Does it cease to be valid? Can the court overturn it? Or is it only ever an advisory notice to the court and the judge can ignore it or observe as they choose?

    After realising that there was unlawful surveillance, the Crown revoked some of it. The rest remains in place until a judge looks at it. I understand an independent lawyer will be assigned to look at the information to argue with the Crown over what if any further information should be released, despite the certificate.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2971 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    an independent lawyer will be assigned

    I guess they'll need to find one who hasn't already blogged or tweeted what they think ;-)

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4218 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Actually very much IMO.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1157 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX,

    Keys opinion of Justice Winkleman's deliberation are - That's just another legal opinion - he sees the operation of law as a thing that you just keep running with, getting legal opinion after legal opinion, until you have the one that justifies the action you want to take or have already taken..

    All things are so Hunky John Key Dory, this really isn't necessary, after all it is just the govt being the govt - is it not - Ms Kitteridge placement in CGSB, really isn't necessary.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10837715

    Keeping the proverbial away from the fan and putting the frighteners up any and all GCSB staff that have concerns with the whole KDC saga - is not what this is about.

    We will get the Kitteridge report on CGSB and that is going to be that.

    Key from TV3 News - "Yeah the conspiracy theorists won’t like it they’ll be on TV tonight saying ‘yeah you know Dotcom’ and all this sort of carry on but they live in fantasy land.”

    Living in real world NZ I ask, “Yeah, on Planet Key is everyone, including the contrarians, stoned?”

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1157 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX,

    The answer.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1157 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to DexterX,

    Living in real world NZ I ask, “Yeah, on Planet Key is everyone, including the contrarians, stoned?”

    Knowing Planet Key, wouldn't they be more coked-up than stoned? Chances are Planet Key thinks weed is for filthy hippies.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 3907 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Joining the Dots.

    Lets film the Hobbit in NZ.
    Dot com moves to NZ
    What?
    Hey Peter. See if you can get the PM to sort out a meeting.
    Mr PM. along with Hobitt, we want to get that megaupload crowd. What with your subsidy we still can't make a buck.
    Can we get him? we'll sort it out our end with the FBI.
    Yup. OK, We'll get our boys to have a sniff around.
    Need a smoke screen
    I know. Cue smoke screen..... guild... blah blah...contractors.......cut!
    Raid.
    TSHTF.
    Hmm...Hey PM, You stuffed up. We need to talk.
    Smoke screen. Hey Jimmy C, sort out a dinner party since you are next in line for residency.
    I'll be there says John. We'll have a chat and see if we can rescue this out of the shit.

    I can't help thinking....its bad for you I know...

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1459 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX, in reply to Ross Mason,

    Those are not the dots that I would be looking at - a more dometic scenario would seems more relevant having regard to the steaming mound of local implausible untruth that surrounds every turn of the Kim Dot Com Saga..

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1157 posts Report Reply

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