Legal Beagle by Graeme Edgeler

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Legal Beagle: Voting Referendum: Jus' Sayin'

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  • Rich of Observationz,

    I’m in favour of a voting and selection system which gives more power to individuals and less power to parties

    Parties are just collections of individuals with common political ideas. If you want to influence the list, you can join a party and do so. (At least you can if you support the Greens. Most of the other parties choose and rank their list through an opaque, undemocratic process. If you don't like this, don't vote for them. Hopefully when Mana get into their stride they'll have a democratic system of list selection, too).

    (In the US, most states have primary elections and you don't have to be a financial member to vote, just registered as a supporter).

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4359 posts Report Reply

  • LIISA, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    apparently we’re all a bit too dumb to understand MMP, so shouldn’t we just make it easier? – like FPP! winners/losers – easy!

    - FPP isn’t all that easy to understand

    I agree - I was paraphrasing the question line taken in the interview, rather than expressing my opinion.

    Wellie • Since May 2008 • 32 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Most of the other parties choose and rank their list through an opaque, undemocratic process.

    It is a requirement for registering a party to contest the party vote that the party have a democratic process for selecting candidates for both electorates and lists, and these processes have to be public (i.e. they're on the Electoral Commission's website).

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2988 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Graeme,
    How is it that parties not currently represented in parliament (ie New Zealand First) are eligible for election broadcasting funding?

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    Ok, most of the other parties choose and rank their list through an opaque, but nominally democratic process.

    I had a read of some of the party rules. Sure, they include consultation of members, but at the end of the day, there's an awful lot of "smoke filled rooms" allowed for.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4359 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to 3410,

    How is it that parties not currently represented in parliament (ie New Zealand First) are eligible for election broadcasting funding?

    The Law says they are eligible. Has since its inception.

    The law could say something else, but it doesn't.

    And here are some of my views on the Broadcasting Allocation process which I prepared earlier...

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2988 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    The Law says they are eligible. Has since its inception.

    The law could say something else, but it doesn't.

    Thanks. Bitchy, circular, wilful obtuseness was just what I was looking for.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to 3410,

    Thanks. Bitchy, circular, wilful obtuseness was just what I was looking for.

    I'm not sure there's much more that I could say in answer to that question: how is it that they're eligible? The law says they are.

    Why? Because Parliament has banned everyone form paying for party political advertising on Radio and TV, and at some point they decided that people should be allowed some ads, but these were limited to a level of public funding that went along with it.

    Do we consider that parties outside parliament shouldn't be able to contest elections, or shouldn't be able to advertise on TV while parties in parliament can? Of course not, so they get a small chance, which, to be honest, probably isn't much better. The whole system is appalling.

    If you're asking specifically why NZF got so much more than other parties outside parliament, then ... that's because they got quite a few votes at the last election, and are polling better than the other non-parliamentary parties, and indeed, better than some of the parliamentary parties.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2988 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    If you're asking specifically why NZF got so much more than other parties outside parliament, then ... that's because they got quite a few votes at the last election, and are polling better than the other non-parliamentary parties, and indeed, better than some of the parliamentary parties.

    Thank you. That wasn't too hard, was it? :)

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to 3410,

    Thank you. That wasn’t too hard, was it? :)

    That was your question?!

    I still wouldn't read it that way. I just offered that as information because I'd offered someone else the same information in reply to a question on the kiwiblog thread.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2988 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    I disagree that the question was tremendously unclear.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Heaps of parties not currently in Parliament got funding. The Alliance got $20k, The Pirate Party got $20k etc. Every party - registered or not - that applies, must get some allocation (i.e. that's what the law says). How could I know you were asking me to explain why NZF was different to the other parties outside Parliament when you were using it as an example of a party outside Parliament?

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2988 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    For the record, that's not what I was asking, but don't worry about it.

    Other than that, I'm out.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed,

    Come to think of it, have the proponents of FPP forgotten about Think Big already?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4058 posts Report Reply

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