So what happens this time?

120 Responses

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  • Paul Rowe,

    Is it easier to believe that the US Govt allowed a suspected/expected terror attack to happen (I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't expect the scale of 9/11) so they could justify war in Iraq or anywhere else or that the US Govt fabricated an attack to justify a war, like say, the Bay of Tonkin for example?

    Lake Roxburgh, Central Ot… • Since Nov 2006 • 563 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    This is interesting:

    "Is corruption in Washington, D.C., the dominant issue driving voters at the polls today? That's what CNN's exit polls are showing, according to Wolf Blitzer and Bill Scheider, who are chatting about their exit numbers on TV as we speak. Scheider just said that 42% of voters cited "corruption in Washington" as the issue which is "extremely important" to them. If true, this would obviously bode ill for the GOP, given the string of GOP officials facing investigation or indictment and given the fact that the GOP runs the place."

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18963 posts Report Reply

  • Eddie Clark,

    Nice repetition of Fox News talking points, James. Although I have to say I'm not convinced by some of the rather erm, shall we say, creative? 9/11 conspiracies being thrown around at the moment.

    Anyway, distraction from real issue. Which is: will this election really reflect popular sentiment. As I said above, the number of documented attempts to disenfranchise, intimidate, and lie to voters is just appalling. And most of the reports I've seen are about republicans. James pointed out that if I read other blogs I might see reports of Dems doing the same thing. Well fine. ANY and all attempts to corrupt an election must be investigated, prosecuted, and the people responsible jailed. Dem, republican, or dodgy lobby group. And any political party found to be involved should be fined heavily.

    If you can't have faith in the electoral process, debate about policy is meaningless. Might as well go live in Zimbabwe.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 270 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Alastair:

    *sigh* Thanks for the thoughtful rebuttal, but I think I'll leave RB to decide what's permissable discourse around here and respectfully suggest you stick the 'tude in the first available orifice.

    Actually, you do have a small point and one I was about to make before you started frothy: Protectionism doesn't neatly split along party lines in the US - and it doesn't here either. I stand by my observation that it was an interesting local angle on the US mid-terms I've not seened addressed here. Then again, I'll be damned if I have any idea where either the Republicans or the Democrats stand on any substantitive policy issue (let alone one as relevant to New Zealand as trade - as opposed to your pastor buying crystal meth and humping rent boys, while your congressman sends lewd IMs to adolescent staffers is bad, m'kay?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    The Dems are against the NSA listening in on calls that suspected terrorists make from outside the US to phone numbers in the US. So if an Al Qaeda guy is caught in Pakistan, and his address book or laptop is catured with a bunch of phone numbers, Pelosi does not want to allow the NSA to listen in on any calls made to those numbers. Isn't that just nuts?

    What's nuts is that you believe this nonsense. Can you provide a SINGLE quote from Pelosi proving that she doesn't want the NSA listening to Al Qaeda's phone calls?

    What I imagine Pelosi is in favour of is that the government obey it's own laws and require the intelligence community to obtain a warrant from a FISA judge if they violate a US citizens constitutional right to privacy.

    When the democrats are campaigning on a platform of getting vast government bureaucracies OUT of peoples lives you know there's something fundamentally wrong in the US.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 902 posts Report Reply

  • Lee Wilkinson,

    operation "northwoods"

    whew are there bonus points for feeding the trolls?

    Whangarei Heads • Since Nov 2006 • 45 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Russell:

    With all due respect, you'd think New Zealand is one country where the media has learned to take polls with a grain of salt, and a whole bottle of tequila. Apparently not, and you'd think CNN would learn from experience.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12034 posts Report Reply

  • Lee Wilkinson,

    pearl harbor, uss maine (cuba)
    pnacs " a pearl harbor type event would be required to get the populace onside"
    quo bono

    Whangarei Heads • Since Nov 2006 • 45 posts Report Reply

  • Eddie Clark,

    americablog has just put up very early exit poll numbers from politicalwire. Lots of caveats, probably completely unreliable, but interesting nonetheless.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 270 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    I've heard it said that the only really sure way for an incumbent to lose his seat in the Congress is for him to be caught in a sex or corruption scandal.

    Anyone monitoring the IRC political chat channels right now? I'd imagine that the big nets like undernet/dalnet/efnet etc will be going mad with raw debate based on happenings on the ground. If you do have access to IRC I suggest connecting to Undernet - then join these channels: #politics and #political - the former is focused towards right/Republican/libertarian voters, the latter is libertarian/Democrat/Left. In past elections they have been a great barometer of US political views sans media influence.

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 894 posts Report Reply

  • James Bremner,

    Russell,
    The perspective on Pelosi et al I wrote about is not based on one statement or interview, taken in context or out of context, but a whole series of clearly stated views, answers and policy positions she and the Dems have.

    Murtha is not being persecuted; his views and his offered solution of redeploying the troops in Iraq to Okinawa is just too stupid to be true. Every Dem ran away from that suggestion and Murtha himself (after being a major league blow hard for months, he has been notably absent from the campaign).

    There is no implication about whether or not one endlessly repeats various phrases (that is a Dem talking point). The implication is that you need to use every tool in your tool box to defeat terrorists and the nations that support and enable them. Military, political, diplomacy, economics, intelligence (yes, water boarding), and law enforcement. The fact is that the US hasn't been hit again after 9/11 and that is not an accident.

    And when we speak of law enforcement, we need to focus on prevention, not prosecution. Believe it or not, Jamie Gorelick, Clinton's 2IC at Justice and an 9/11 Commission member (major conflict, there is no way she should have been on the 9/11 commission) said that in the mid 1990s, when she toughened the rules further restricting what the CIA, the FBI and other government agencies could share with each other, she did it, and the Clinton Administration signed off on it because "she wanted to make sure that whatever information was gathered could be used for evidence in a trial"

    Got that? A trial, in other words, she was focused on after a terrorist act had been committed, not preventing the terrorist act. That is what I menat about this approach not being much use for the next lot of people who have to jump from the next WTC.

    When people deride the Dems for their "law enforcement" approach to terrorism, this is what is being referred to.

    NOLA • Since Nov 2006 • 341 posts Report Reply

  • Tim Michie,

    Hi James,

    Could you include a link to one of those clearly stated views, answers and policy postions please? I've not found them since searching after your earlier post.

    Thanks,
    tim

    Auckward • Since Nov 2006 • 565 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Boden,

    The fact is that the US hasn't been hit again after 9/11 and that is not an accident.

    Lisa Simpson: "I've got a rock in my pocket that protects me against tigers."

    Homer Simpson: "How do I know it works?"

    Lisa: "Do you see any tigers around?"

    Homer: "Lisa, I want to buy your rock."

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 22 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    sigh* Thanks for the thoughtful rebuttal, but I think I'll leave RB to decide what's permissable discourse around here and respectfully suggest you stick the 'tude in the first available orifice.

    And I was all good with it right up till that point. That wasn't a very respectful suggestion. I'm really trying not to go down the Kiwiblog gurgler ...

    WRT to your point, I find it hard to gauge how either of the major parties really feels about trade liberalisation. The current administration never seems to live up to its rhetoric on trade, and I don't really trust the Dems on it either, which tends to take the issue out of play somewhat.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18963 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    Military, political, diplomacy, economics, intelligence (yes, water boarding), and law enforcement. The fact is that the US hasn't been hit again after 9/11 and that is not an accident.

    Homer: Not a bear in sight. The "Bear Patrol" is working like a charm!
    Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.
    Homer: [uncomprehendingly] Thanks, honey.
    Lisa: By your logic, I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
    Homer: Hmm. How does it work?
    Lisa: It doesn't work. (pause) It's just a stupid rock!
    Homer: Uh-huh.
    Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
    Homer: (pause) Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 902 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Boden,

    Homer: Not a bear in sight. The "Bear Patrol" is working like a charm!
    Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.
    Homer: [uncomprehendingly] Thanks, honey.
    Lisa: By your logic, I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
    Homer: Hmm. How does it work?
    Lisa: It doesn't work. (pause) It's just a stupid rock!
    Homer: Uh-huh.
    Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
    Homer: (pause) Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

    The world brain at work again. :)

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 22 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Rowe,

    Ben: I've heard it said that the only really sure way for an incumbent to lose his seat in the Congress is for him to be caught in a sex or corruption scandal.

    There's a line in a Pacino film (City Hall?) that goes something like:

    The only thing that can end a politician's career are being caught with a live boy or a dead girl...

    Lake Roxburgh, Central Ot… • Since Nov 2006 • 563 posts Report Reply

  • James Bremner,

    Danyl Mclauchlan

    "What's nuts is that you believe this nonsense"

    Danyl, all I can say is that I live in the US, I talk to Americans everyday, I travel around the US, I watch US TV every night, and you don't.

    I can tell you without fear of contrdiction that the Dems went nuts over the NSA program because I watched Dems on TV every night for weeks and weeks blowing their stacks about the NSA program, demanding that it be shut down and Bush be impeached and all the usual crap etc.

    Here is an excerpt from an article that spells thing sout pretty plainly:

    Here's a clue: 90 percent of House Democrats voted against the NSA's Terrorist Surveillance Program; 80 percent voted against the terrorist interrogation bill. All these counterterror programs are at risk if House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi gets the speaker's gavel next year . . .

    Link here

    NOLA • Since Nov 2006 • 341 posts Report Reply

  • Alastair Thompson,

    ABC on exit polls
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2006/story?id=2635898

    Nov. 7, 2006 — Preliminary exit poll results indicate that nearly six in 10 voters today disapprove of the way President Bush is handling his job.

    About four in 10 approve. That's down from 53 percent approval in 2004, and 67 percent just before the 2002 midterm elections.

    About four in 10 "strongly" disapprove of the president's work, more than double the number of strong approvers.

    Intensity of sentiment for and against, by contrast, was about equal in 2004: Thirty-three percent strongly approved of the president's performance, and 35 percent strongly disapproved. And in 2002, strong approvers dominated, quite a contrast from today.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 180 posts Report Reply

  • Alastair Thompson,

    Huffington post leaked exit poll numbers

    SENATE EXIT POLLS AS OF 5:30 EST: Democrats Leading: Virginia (52-47), Rhode Island (53-46), Pennsylvania (57-42), Ohio (57-43), New Jersey (52-45), Montana (53-46), Missouri (50-48), Maryland (53-46)…GOP Leading: Tennessee (51-48), Arizona (50-46)…

    Show 51-49 democrat senate...

    We will see..........

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 180 posts Report Reply

  • Alastair Thompson,

    Can I suggest we start a new thread....

    Its started...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 180 posts Report Reply

  • James Bremner,

    Danyl & Joe

    Why hasn't the US hasn't been attacked since 9/11?

    Maybe Osama has been at the beach, or have there been several massive attacks in the US that the Bush administration has covered up to cling desperately to power to keep making money from Halliburton?

    NOLA • Since Nov 2006 • 341 posts Report Reply

  • Eddie Clark,

    90 percent of House Democrats voted against the NSA's Terrorist Surveillance Program; 80 percent voted against the terrorist interrogation bill.

    So those would be the secret, no-warrant-required wiretapping bill, and the "goodbye, habeas corpus" bill? Gee, isn't it awful they voted against those? Still waiting for solid evidence of Nancy Pelosi's loony lib, terrorist enabling policy platform. Voting against bad legislation does not provide said evidence!

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 270 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    Exit polls for key Senate races from Political Animal:

    Virginia: D 52 R 47
    Montana: D 53 R 46
    Missouri: D 50 R 48
    Tennessee: D 48 R 51

    Missouri is too narrow, but its not looking too bad so far.

    Salon has a guide to watching (webbing?) the elections here.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1652 posts Report Reply

  • James Bremner,

    Watch out for exit polls. Remember 2004?

    NOLA • Since Nov 2006 • 341 posts Report Reply

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