Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Nobody wanted #EQNZ for Christmas

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  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to nzlemming,

    It sez here:
    The Leader of the Opposition is the member who leads the largest political party that is not part of the Government. I wonder what will happen when the Greens become that party (if they don’t go straight to being the largest party *in* government).

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4221 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    That's entirely correct - for the leader, as there are constitutional and legislative reasons why there needs to be a Leader of the Opposition. However, no one spokesperson from any party in opposition to the Government of the day can claim to be the "Opposition spokesperson for X". They can be the Labour spokesperson, or the Green spokesperson or even the Mana spokesperson, at a pinch, but not the Opposition spokesperson, unless all parties in opposition so designate them.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1701 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Eh, that's really not true. There's a specific formal role of Opposition, which is different from opposition. And it does fall on the Labour Party,

    Since Jul 2008 • 1252 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Natural Event, Manmade Disaster.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10784562

    The Tree, is a tree along the West East cycleway leading to the Peterborough St footbridge in Hagley Park. Its history is as the meeting point for the University of Canty Rugby team when they were still at the "Arts Centre".
    http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4GGHP_enNZ435NZ435&q=park+tce+christchurch&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=3968l16914l0l17317l24l13l1l10l10l0l391l4041l2-8.5l19l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&ion=1&biw=911&bih=412&wrapid=tljp132881322148220&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x6d318a38041c7a6b:0xa99b38217c7c4301,Park+Terrace,+Christchurch+Central,+Christchurch&gl=nz&ei=pxQ0T7TvOsejiQeUxvGVAg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CB4Q8gEwAA
    I nominate The Tree, as the tree to hang the bastards responsible for this disaster from.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Sacha,

    It is at least “answering” the question, unlike last term where you’ll recall Brownlee got away with refusing to do so.

    Said Simple Simon to the Pieman "What have you got there?"
    "Pies, c*nt."

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3291 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    crumbs

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15752 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    a whole lotta shaking going on…

    <edit> hmmm doesn't seem to show up, ya may have to click on the YouTube link .

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4228 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    If you go and look at Standing Orders, the only references to "opposition" are to the Leader of the Opposition.

    Apart the only thing that I can find relevant is that "priority [in speaking] should be given to party spokespersons in order of size of party membership in the House".

    So as far as I can tell, the L.O.T.O is the only explicitly recognised role, and apart from that, members speak for their parties, not the opposition. Practically however, this means that the Labour spokesman on X will be given the first chance to respond.

    If anyone knows more about parliamentary procedure feel free to correct this.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4221 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Well, of course members only speak for their parties. The point is that one of those parties is also the Official Opposition with a capital O*. It is a perfectly fine usage to refer to the Opposition spokesperson, and also perfectly fine to talk about the opposition parties.

    * This is the case in almost every Westminster system, and many of them also have multiple opposition parties. The rule holds.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1252 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    do any other Westminster-style parliaments have MMP?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15752 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    The point is that one of those parties is also the Official Opposition with a capital O*

    I'm not convinced that it's one party, but rather all of them that are not in government. The 'leader' role as Rich says is different in current statute.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15752 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Could you provide a reference for that?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4221 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Yes: the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly. Further, the Canadian Parliament has four major parties (BQ, NDP, Cons, Libs), Westminster itself has three major (LD, Lab, Cons,) and half a dozen minor (SNP, Plaid, UDP, SF, etc) parties. New Zealand is hardly unique in not being an entirely two-party system.

    Wikipedia has a pretty good summary of the concept.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1252 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    thanks

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15752 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    Yes, but do you have a reference that states that the largest non governmental party in NZ is (by statute, standing order, or documented practice) the Opposition?

    The cited Wikipedia article has no (useful) references. I'm prepared to accept that it is common practice to speak of [Labour] as the opposition, but not that this role has any legal validity.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4221 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    What does `legal validity' mean? It is conventional to refer to the largest bloc of non-government MPs as the Opposition. A journalist who uses that terminology is not being lazy; rather they are using a long standing, and entirely accurate, principle of Westminster democracy. Parts of the notion of the Official Opposition have legal connotations, the office of Leader of the Opposition being the most prominent in NZ. It is absurd to think that the thing that Shearer leads includes Hone, Peters, and the Greens, none of whom had any chance to vote for him.

    Now, there's not much attached, in New Zealand, to the role of Opposition. We prefer the term opposition parties, because it is more useful. But that doesn't mean the Opposition doesn't exist.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1252 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    It is absurd to think that the thing that Shearer leads includes Hone, Peters, and the Greens, none of whom had any chance to vote for him.

    Under MMP they can form alliances, though - and not necessarily led by the same party as FPP always was. That should have some impact on usage now, no matter how long-standing it may have been.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15752 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    NZ had alliances under FPP*. The National Party, after all, was originally a coalition, as you can tell by the name. And yes it might, but in fact overseas it doesn’t seem to have, even in cases with more parties. (In fact I suspect Opposition terminology becomes more entrenched as a way of distinguishing when there are multiple opposition parties.)

    * As have Canada, Australia, the UK, etc etc. FPP doesn't produce a two party system at a national level, just at an electorate level, and in fact is arguably more conducive to stable three or four major party systems than MMP is, which generally tends toward a left/right system.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1252 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    There's a specific formal role of Opposition, which is different from opposition. And it does fall on the Labour Party

    As the largest opposition bloc? What would happen if a grouping of opposition parties got together post-election -- sort of like tha government forming a coalition -- and proclaimed themselves some sort of alliance and then became the largest bloc?

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2442 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    The compleat tosser...
    Brownlee really can't help himself, I just heard him on National Radio, before 5pm, saying that Lianne Dalziel (no relation) was being unduly negative about Chchch's recovery "because of her Mayoral aspirations" !!
    Good of Gerry to throw Lianne's hat in the ring for her...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4228 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Attachment

    Brownlee really can't help himself

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3291 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Regrettably and for the first time ever I agree with Gerry.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2442 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    Good. An intelligent addition to the council table; I don't always agree with Peter Beck but I have respect for him.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/6398677/Peter-Beck-wins-by-election

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2442 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Hebe,

    I am glad Beck won BUT - anybody else disturbed by the extraordinary low turnout?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Islander,

    that's pretty usual for most local body elections, isn't it?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15752 posts Report Reply

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