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Speaker: All aboard: The choice for young New Zealanders

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  • Sacha, in reply to Lucy Stewart,

    to contribute

    Exactly. That potential is a casualty of the short-sighted decisions we've tolerated over the past few decades. Selfishness has been prioritised over a sense of service to any group larger than ourselves, including a professional field.

    The conversational fixation on *tax* is a reflection of that narrow monetised and transactional focus that many seem to regard as quite normal in our neoliberal laboratory.

    Alternative discussions about community and the satisfaction of doing good work have been inadequately led, supported and stewarded. I welcome The Voyage as a sign of change.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16472 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to DeepRed,

    Rod Drury rightly believes

    An interesting thing about that paper is that it marked a formerly-committed free market advocate recognising that there can be market failure in infrastructure provision unless government steps in and does its job.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16472 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    中国 • Since Jan 2010 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Islander,

    You’re familiar with ‘faux ami’

    Very much so, having majored in French and studied German and Russian. I remember feeling a little silly in one Russian class hearing na primer (for example) and catching myself thinking it was the French word premier. I seem to remember my students stumbling across a Chinese-English faux ami earlier this semester, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was, and it seems I foolishly didn't go and blog about it at the time. Oh well, maybe I'll have the good fortune to stumble across it again one day...

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 2009 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    Could the NZ govt make it easier? I’m not sure they could, and even if they did, I don’t know what proportion of people would still stay.

    Yes, absolutely they could make it easier. Chris has pointed out some areas in desperate need of work. But even from a purely economics/employment point of view there is a lot of work that could be done. From my very narrow sinocentric language geek's point of view, I like the work I see the government doing on building up relations with China*, but I've heard too often that Kiwis are crap at doing business - they show up, sign a contract, then vanish, thinking they've done a deal, but blithely unaware that their Chinese partners are really confused, thinking they've tried to start a relationship only to have the other half vanish into the ether. My own boss, who has done business with NZ and has visited NZ many times, has been known to say that Kiwis are great farmers but crap at business. My own experience, from people asking me why the hell I would major in French, what could I possibly do with that (yeah, because communication is so completely unnecessary, right?) to trying to get jobs in NZ - and having a WINZ case officer tell me "Well, there's really nothing I can do to help, you're way overqualified to be here", or standing in the queue at WINZ listening to Manic Street Preachers' sing If you tolerate this, then your children will be next - to reading recently of the difficulties people with Asian names still have getting jobs in NZ, backs up the impression that NZ's business leaders grossly undervalue linguistic and cultural skills and knowledge. This has got to change, and fast, and the government could be playing a strong leadership role in driving that change, but the only good thing I hear or read about this government is what it's doing to build up relations with China - but even there it seems determined to shoot NZ in both feet. Of all the govt departments I've had to deal with, MFAT has been the best and the most consistently professional, and yet they want to cut their budget too?

    I know I'm not the only Kiwi who racked up a huge debt getting an education and then found exile the only way to get ahead. Comparing what I read of the NZ government with what I see happening around me in China, I can think of a multitude of areas in which the NZ government could be showing some leadership for positive change, but isn't, and one area in which they've got the right idea, but I can only grade them with a "could do better".

    *And the media could help, too. There's been quite a few local and central government and even National Party delegations visiting China this year, but you wouldn't know it from what Stuff, the Herald, TVNZ or TV3 have up online. Case in point: Celia Wade-Brown just visited Tianjin. Searching the Dom-Post gets me an article saying she will be leading a delegation to China, nothing about the trade fair she attended in Beijing, and nothing about what she actually did in China. Not for the first time, I get more information wading through stodgy as all hell Chinese government press releases. This one is as uninformative as always, but it does say that Wade-Brown said:

    天津在城市建设等方面有许多可借鉴的经验,希望通过此次访问进一步增进了解,深化友谊,在金融商贸、环境保护、影视文化、创意产业等方面深化合作,共同发展。

    "Tianjin has a lot of experience in areas such as city-building that can be learned from, and hopes that through this visit we can increase understanding, deepen friendship, deepen cooperation in such fields as the finance trade, environmental protection, film and TV culture and creative industries, and develop together."

    It ain't much, but it's more than I've found on Stuff. How are Wellington's business leaders supposed to know what to do in China when their local newspaper apparently can't inform them what their own mayor got up to over here? Heck, even asking my wife, whose work unit organised CIFTIS - the trade fair in Beijing Wade-Brown attended, gets me more information than I can find on Stuff - apparently she's quite beautiful and wore a white tiki to Wen Jiabao's speech. Not much use to anybody in Wellington, but something.

    And of course it's not all about China. There are several other countries on the rise while Europe and America waffle themselves into obscurity. What are NZ's government, media and business leaders doing about them? I don't know, because there's precious little information available in the NZ media, and the rest of the world is only barely aware we exist.

    Excuse the incoherence. This post was interrupted by a run around the corner for lunch, and there are several stacks of test papers and essays staring at me with increasing malevolence demanding to be marked and reminding me final exams are just around the corner.

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 2009 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Well, I've been in and out of business for many years and I've *never* come across an occasion where the travelling mayor of the town we were based, or indeed any other politician, has helped us get business.

    If you make stuff people want to buy and have the sales/marketing skills to draw it to their attention, then generally they'll buy it. And for a company starting to export, it's way easier to start with the low hanging fruit of Australia, North America and Europe, usually in that order

    Personally, I think Wade-Brown should stay back here and work on trying to stop the government despoiling the city with unnecessary road schemes, which I thought was what we elected her for?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4419 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Well, alright, fair enough. But I woulda thunk that if she were going to the trouble of travelling all this way to help drum up a bit of business, then surely Wellington's local rag could've had the decency to report a bit more on her trip, perhaps even send somebody along with the delegation to see what she got up to.

    But the point I was trying to incoherently make was that the government could be doing a lot more about leading NZ into the future, but they're not. And the media could be helping with that, but they're not. And our business leaders could be helping with that, but where are they getting their information from?

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 2009 posts Report Reply

  • Kimberley Verburg, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    Except that's not the choice. The reality is you can live your values anywhere. You can contribute to improving Australian or British or French or US society just as easily as you can contribute to NZ society.

    Not quite, but I thank you for the hopeful words as I've just made the choice not to return to ANZ but to go to the Netherlands instead.

    I will contribute to Dutch society but not as easily because I need to find my way first and because my best knowledge and experience is rooted in the English language. It's been preying on my mind a bit. Also, the Netherlands is so much richer that I feel like it doesn't need my contribution as much.

    That said, Islander's post makes me want to cry. I will miss the home that formed me.

    Leiden • Since Jun 2007 • 25 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    the government could be doing a lot more about leading NZ into the future, but they're not.

    Yet they think they are. Need more voices pointing out they're not wearing any clothes.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16472 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    then surely Wellington’s local rag could’ve had the decency to report a bit more on her trip, perhaps even send somebody along with the delegation to see what she got up to.

    Certainly following the Pansy Wong affair it would seem to be the very least they could do to protect New Zealand interests.

    "cooperation in such fields as the finance trade, environmental protection, film and TV culture and creative industries, and develop together"

    Predictably vaguely tailored for the local reader(s)? begging the question as to the expected benefits of this (I assume) ratepayer funded junket for Wellingtonians. I understand exactly where you're coming from Chris and agree that more needs to be done rather than just seen to be done.

    Rich of Observationz, your admission that it’s way easier to start with the low hanging fruit of Australia, North America and Europe (and in particular North America and Europe) somewhat reinforces Chris's prognosis that NZ’s business leaders grossly undervalue linguistic and cultural skills and knowledge - In China the fruit is hanging so low you could call it Han.

    中国 • Since Jan 2010 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Kimberley Verburg,

    It’s been preying on my mind a bit. Also, the Netherlands is so much richer that I feel like it doesn’t need my contribution as much.

    The word contribute is fairly high frequency on this thread.

    For the record I’d be interested to know whether returning home, paying taxes, paying off accrued interest on loans, paying off the late payment fees, paying off the late payment interest, paying off the loans themselves, renewing a passport, buying a drivers license, buying a firearms license, holding down a job, making a go of that, pumping money into the economy, recycling, voting, attending council funded firework displays and musical extravaganza, watching more of New Zealand on Air, voting for *winners* in New Zealand on Air funded shows, using public transport wherever possible, keeping healthy and generally just being a good enough person qualifies as a contribution or is it merely subsistence?

    中国 • Since Jan 2010 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to chris,

    Interaction...

    ....qualifies as a contribution
    or is it merely subsistence?

    the machine of state needs steady lubrication,
    it's the maintenance of silence that leads to trouble...

    On November 18, 1982, Neil Roberts, a 22 year old Aucklander daubed a washroom wall with the graffiti slogan ‘WE HAVE MAINTAINED A SILENCE CLOSELY RESEMBLING STUPIDITY’ then placed a bomb outside the State Security Computer Centre at Wanganui – where files are kept on all citizens. The bomb blew Neil Roberts to pieces.

    <quote source>

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4660 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Or we could join the good life by helping the Profit in his South Auckland Walled City devil-opment.

    And:

    Auckland councillor Dick Quax says Mr Tamaki's ambitious plans should be praised.

    “He's looking at educating people, helping people with social problems,” says Mr Quax. “No problems with that whatsoever.”

    Thanks Dick. It will have it's own university as well. PhD in Creation Science anyone?

    In a couple of years time the taxpayers will be coping with broken families, ripped off home sellers and broken individuals as a result of this.

    But the Life of Brian will certainly be enhanced. Do I see a Bigger boat? Bigger SUV? Bigger Harley?

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1491 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Ross Mason,

    I was thinking more the Waco Siege or Jonestown. Still, we know where Cr Quax stands.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4154 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to DeepRed,

    Still, we know where Cr Quax stands

    By the Kool-Aid table, right?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4660 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    By the Kool-Aid table, right?

    According to the ploddingly goofy Tahu Potiki, Tamaki's a victim of the chardonnay set's contempt for Kool-Aid, with extra demerits for being indigenous.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3370 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Instead he has adopted a very puritanical and rigid interpretation of scripture which utterly condemns the idea of any sexual relationship that is not between a man and a woman. This is pretty consistent with other conservative church positions,

    Oh Right! so he's in line with other fucked up organisations. That's all right then.
    The "City of god" is in Wiri... Who knew!
    And as for Quax, Sharples and others fawning over this throwback with self-serving noises about all the good that will come of it....
    More fool you.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1173 posts Report Reply

  • Moz,

    Amusingly Australia is currently suffering from a free market approach to training the trades over the last few years, and at the same time as they're gutting the tafe/polytech system they're trying to import tradespeople from China because there aren't enough ozzie kids with the skills. It's not just NZ. Australia also runs a big scam where they "sell" education and after qualifying you're at the head of the queue for immigration. So we have a lot of new hairdressers and gym trainers who really don't like their jobs but it beats living in Uzbekistan.

    Me? I'll probably retire in NZ, but every time I look at working there the idea of halving my pay and limiting myself to a tiny pool of potential employers just seems like career suicide. Instead I contribute by sending money to various environmentalist groups :)

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 428 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to andin,

    The “City of god” is in Wiri

    Ciudade de deus? Cool film, but something tells me that's not what Brian plans to build....

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 2009 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Heh

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1491 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    According to the ploddingly goofy Tahu Potiki,

    Tahu Potiki- bearer of an exceedingly illustrious name within Kai Tahu - has been a source of contention for some years. He's like Tipene - wealthy, with considerable clout historically, and - like Tipene - being withdrawn from, by the aunties.
    I'm one of the aunties now - and I do not support fuckwits.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

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