Hard News: "Creative" and "Flexible"
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I do like the constructive tone that's starting to dominate this discussion!
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D'you reckon shutting Concert FM down altogether would get us there faster than lobbying for more funding and more diverse programming on the station as it currently stands?
I agree, shutting down the infrastructure because the content is less than ideal is a Bad Idea, because any future lobbying would require an infrastructure spend, making it less likely to get budget approval.
I was not actually calling for Concert FM to be shut down, more that I was disagreeing with the notion that it was (in it's current form) a Must Have that the market could never provide for.
If Concert isn't (good) enough, then why aren't we asking for more
IIRC, Neil Finn lobbied for a youth radio station a few years ago, saying that we already have a station for old people, how about something for teh yoofs. This was under Labour, and didn't get very far.
Another one or two stations that broadened the RNZ content is a great idea, and could achieve the balance I'm talking about without impinging on Concert FM. This would be a win, IMO.
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Echoing Tim - that webstock finale video is amazing! I especially loved the Metropolis/Geiger bit in the middle. How much cooler it must have been in person, you lucky things.
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I was not actually calling for Concert FM to be shut down, more that I was disagreeing with the notion that it was (in it's current form) a Must Have that the market could never provide for.
Important clarification, and I'm sorry if I misrepresented you. So, just kicking the tires on the government-sponsored ice-cream van and reckoning we could do it cheaper or better ourselves? :-)
I dunno. If you could find elsewhere in the world a privately funded classical station with the range and (current or improved) local content of Concert, I might be more persuaded that the market will indeed provide. I haven't looked extensively, but most seem to be publicly funded.
(Then there is Radio Classique Paris, which "is the only the radio operator offering Classical music and Economic Information" and which I am now picturing David Haywood listening to while he writes up his contes de Bollard).
Another one or two stations that broadened the RNZ content is a great idea, and could achieve the balance I'm talking about without impinging on Concert FM. This would be a win, IMO.
Exactly... and/but what do you reckon the chances are of persuading this lot that we need to quadruple National Radio? An informed populace is a dangerously intelligent populace, after all.
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I was not actually calling for Concert FM to be shut down, more that I was disagreeing with the notion that it was (in it's current form) a Must Have that the market could never provide for.
But it is. It is something we must have, and it is something the market could never provide.
It is not the best thing we could have, and it certainly isn't the best thing it could be. But then, in 1950 the National Gallery wasn't the best thing it could be, but shutting it down would still have been a bad thing.
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I was not actually calling for Concert FM to be shut down, more that I was disagreeing with the notion that it was (in it's current form) a Must Have that the market could never provide for.
You were objecting to it being Eurocentric; which is more than a little silly, given that the musical traditions which Concert addresses are mostly European. It is akin to objecting to the number of dead white males represented in Auckland Art Gallery.
Besides which, how much traditional Maori music is known? And isn't the taste contemporary Maori music largely met by the market?
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If you torch an icecream van, you'll get a lot of melted ice cream.
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You were objecting to it being Eurocentric; which is more than a little silly, given that the musical traditions which Concert addresses are mostly European.
Not at all. I was objecting to it being almost exclusively Eurocentric. This all came out of the comments along the lines of Concert FM being a public good. My point is this:
If we designed Concert FM today, it would look very different to what it currently is. This is because we have a different cultural lens that applied back in the 1930s, when the NZBS (the forerunner to the NZBC) started. Today's Concert FM would be much more diverse.
In short, yesterday's public good is not the same as today's public good, not matter how much you want things to stay the same. So, I challenge the notion that Concert FM remains a public good on the basis that its content is too narrowly focused.
That being said, I abhor the way this government is treating Radio New Zealand and agree with Russell - Coleman has failed to protect his patch. I don't want to see Concert FM shut down, for the reasons that Jolisa has given.
And now for my ice cream analogy:
The market doesn't serve true ice cream, but actually serves up an adulterated version that is close, but no cigar if you know your ice cream. And let's face it, the Concert FM listeners know their ice cream.
So, what the hell am I on about ?
This: The vast majority commercial radio stations speed up the songs. The pitch and timbre are all wrong, and it all feels very ersatz. Bfm and George don't do it, but the others do. I think they do it so the get in more songs per hour (and therefore more ads) or something.
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So, I challenge the notion that Concert FM remains a public good on the basis that its content is too narrowly focused.
I see what you mean. But when I looked at the below I thought there was a bit of a mix.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/concert/programmes
It needs to be better, as people have said, not threatened.
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we already have a station for old people, how about something for teh yoofs. This was under Labour, and didn't get very far.
Another one or two stations that broadened the RNZ content is a great idea, and could achieve the balance I'm talking about without impinging on Concert FM. This would be a win, IMO.And you don't need to look very far to find a station just like this. JJJ (or Triple J as the kids call it these days) is a government-funded station which is a part of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.
And when I lived in Sydney, I thought it was teh awesome.
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The market doesn't serve true ice cream, but actually serves up an adulterated version that is close, but no cigar if you know your ice cream. And let's face it, the Concert FM listeners know their ice cream.
To carry the analogy further, it would be like if the government sold at no cost one particular flavour of icecream. I like hazelnut ice-cream as much as the next person...
Although, now that I think about it, there is a pretty compelling case for the Government distributing Kaffee Eis nationally for free.
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Danyl, point me towards Mahler's 8th on the internet (in full, for free) and I'll buy you an ice cream.
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With the movements broken up into segments, at YouTube audio quality?
I'll stay with FM radio, thanks.Incidentally, the Mahler 8 concert from the Arts Festival will also be streamed (video and audio) on the RNZ website. All part of the service.
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So, I challenge the notion that Concert FM remains a public good on the basis that its content is too narrowly focused.
It is narrowly focused on some of the best music ever made, music which is not played by any other channel. That is a public good. It is also, as you say, elitist; but that is an aesthetic good.
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Head-Desk concerto
Teeshirt-worthy
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Yes, but the analogy falls down because it is pretty well universally accepted that it is barbaric not to support the arts.
Oh thanks, Kier. I've just supported the Auckland Film Society by cutting a cheque, and expect the annual round of overdraft abuse when the festival program is announced. While it would be damn nice to have pointy headed elitist largely Eurocentric film culture directly supported by the Government (and not so dependent on sponsorship, membership subscriptions and awesome amounts of volunteer labour), I think I'll bow out of slagging off anyone who thinks differently as barbarians.
That being said, I abhor the way this government is treating Radio New Zealand and agree with Russell - Coleman has failed to protect his patch.
I'd like to be naive enough to think there's a bit more going on in any Government than Ministers "protecting" their own little fifedoms simply to preserve their 'mana". Just another bullet point on the list of my wretched naivete, I guess.
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I do not believe I have read anyone here arguing that RNZ Concert should be scrapped.
Some of us have said it's less defensible in its current form than others think it is. There have been some good responses, and wouldn't you rather have that debate here than be unprepared with the Minister and the shallowmedia?
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Mikaere said "If classical music is as popular as it has been suggested in this thread, then the market would surely be able to deliver it ?"
We all know those euphemisms. The key to Concdert FMs success is its non-commercial model and being strongly bonded to Nat Radio. This is a model that works well with complimentary units.
To destroy one station, or letting market forces corrupt it, will not answer your valid question. Where is the National Maori Radio station?
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If those things were replacements for radio, radio would have died with the Walkman
Hell no, most of the things I listened to on the Walkman came from the radio. My Dad, an avid Concert Program listener had a huge library of tapes.
Can't stand it any more though, it was well thrashed out when I was a kid. Now most of the classical I listen to is non-European. If Concert Program put some of that on I'd listen again, I'm sure. Mostly I get my stuff from the library.
Seriously I'd love to hear a station that played classics from every culture, without ads. Concert program just ain't it. I've heard it all sorry, and Dad's even got the tapes.
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Sidebar - the Music tutors at UC are claiming they're not elitist - no-one is arguing.
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@ Bob
I am firmly of the belief that state owned braodcasters have a very important role to serve in our communities but as already said thats a whole bunch of money and we're not as wealthy as we'd like to think we are.
I was on the youth radio policy group with Neil Finn et al and quite quickly realised how expensive it is to establish and run a radio network if you decide that everyone has to receive it. RNZ's costs divide almost equally between staff and infrastructure.
It's just not cheap to provide a truly national service. It would be much cheaper to simply do Auckland and Wellington, but the people who really value RNZ the most the are people at the end of the line.
The two big commercial radio companies have approach the problem from the other direction. They've progressively bought up good little regional stations, who have local spectrum, stripped out the local operation, and turned them into More FM or The Breeze. That's pretty depressing.
One fairly practical argument for a national public network is that it has civil defence practice built into its DNA, and regional reporters to back it up. The US has shown in recent years what can happen when faceless corporate networks take over local stations -- you lose all sense of place, and civil defence loses a crucial communications tool.
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It is narrowly focused on some of the best music ever made, music which is not played by any other channel. That is a public good. It is also, as you say, elitist; but that is an aesthetic good.
It is very good music. You will find no disagreement there from me.
I am still uncomfortable with the notion that this is sufficient _on its own_ to demand a station. I seem to want utilitarian arguments, such as listenership, promotion of artists, and inclusion.
Other things are objective goods. Very good wine, or cheese, for example. These are things that are good, and ordinarily out of reach of the average person. And again, not everybody appreciates their merits. Yet the Government does not have a delivery program taking these into every home - it supports them through trade and industry programs, in the same way as Creative NZ and the NZ Film Commission are used to promote NZ culture.
On the other hand, perhaps there is more of a case for the NZ Government to support and intervene in favour of institutions (in the widest sense) thought to be objectively good.
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Where is the National Maori Radio station?
There's a whole network of them.
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I'd like to be naive enough to think there's a bit more going on in any Government than Ministers "protecting" their own little fifedoms simply to preserve their 'mana".
It's a political reality. I'm betting that the least experienced ministers will fare worst in the Budget. You watch.
But it's only relevant if you actually have a a vision for and a connection to your portfolio.
(OTOH, Steve Maharey was obsessed with the detail of broadcasting policy and it didn't make him a successful Broadcasting minister ... )
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Craig, I really don't see where you get that reading of what I wrote from the text.
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