Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Incomplete, inaccurate and misleading

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  • Angela Hart,

    Surely whatever payroll Ede was on it is accepted that he had ready access to the PM's office in the beehive. His actions are no longer in dispute, except by JK who doesn't appear to know truth from fiction. His actions ought to merit some personal consequence even if they were sanctioned at a higher level.
    If Ede and his paymasters have nothing to hide then why has he hidden for so long?

    Christchurch • Since Apr 2014 • 614 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Pattison,

    New Zealand Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security Sir Humphrey Appleby: "Unfortunately, although the answer was indeed clear, simple and straightforward, there is some difficulty in justifiably assigning to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated and the facts insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated is such as to cause epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear."

    Auckland • Since Aug 2014 • 24 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    In fact paras 130-150 cover the Ministerial/Parl Serv issue. In brief: they worked for both, and moved between the two depending on their specific role at the particular time they acted.

    I think this is (a) dodgy as hell in terms of evading retrospective accountability (i.e I don't think you can just put your PS hat on to dodge the law) and also (b) really bad practice that should be stopped in future.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Teej,

    .. whether the Act is in play.

    Interestingly, Nicky Hagar says it "appears" to be a breach;

    http://dirtypoliticsnz.com/

    Certainly this question/aspect of Gwyn's findings needs to be tested - I'm assuming that would have to be via an official police complaint. To me, it might be a good petition for Action Station to take up - and then having gathered signatures in support of the proposed police complaint, they send it on to NZP (given NZP seem to be ignoring/side stepping David Parker's earlier complaint).

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Ian Pattison,

    Brilliant!

    Classic obfuscation from a true master of the art.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Caleb D'Anvers,

    I thought Matthew Dentith has the single best take on why #dirtypolitics never seems to get any traction with either the mainstream media or “ordinary New Zealanders":

    Dentith … has a clear line on why Hager’s revelations did not have the electoral impact many on the Left expected.

    It can be explained by the assumptions we all carry around with us about the world in which we live.

    “For people on the Left, Dirty Politics should have been a crushing blow to the National Party,” Dentith says. “But people on the Right say that this is just how politics works these days. Politics is like a business and when you’re engaged in a business, you’ve got to engage in a certain amount of dirty politicking in the background because that is what businesses do to advance their particular interest. ‘National Inc’ is advancing the interests of the ordinary New Zealanders they represent.”

    For those who believe National is doing a good job, Dirty Politics backfired on Labour and the Greens. National voters shrugged and asked: “Why are they making a fuss about how politics should actually operate?"

    Truth is, there is a sizeable bloc of New Zealanders (I’d say it comprises the majority of National’s core support) who not only believe politics ordinarily is run along these lines but should be. They embrace authoritarian rule and corruption because it works out well for them. House and dairy prices keep going up. There’s footie on the weekends, no one has to think too hard, and there’s someone who looks and sounds like them in the PM’s office. What’s not to like?

    For the Left, of course, it’s the unpleasant sensation of discovering that the mentality of “Rob’s Mob” is still very much with us.

    London SE16 • Since Mar 2008 • 482 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    In fact paras 130-150 cover the Ministerial/Parl Serv issue. In brief: they worked for both, and moved between the two depending on their specific role at the particular time they acted.

    Thanks for clarifying that

    I think this is (a) dodgy as hell in terms of evading retrospective accountability (i.e I don’t think you can just put your PS hat on to dodge the law) and also (b) really bad practice that should be stopped in future

    Definitely.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Caleb D'Anvers,

    Or as Cam the Man puts it…

    “Every politicians who expresses outrage over playing politics is a sanctimonious hypocrite.

    This whole thing is just politics…its a game, some of us play hard, some like a bunch of pansies. Get used to it, it isn’t going to change any time soon.”

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/11/sorry-phil-goff-deserves/

    Its kind of the the ‘its rugby, not tiddlywinks’ argument…until of course the hard man tactics puts a player in a wheelchair or a coffin.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie, in reply to nzlemming,

    It's so cheeky it's not funny. Also poses real questions about how other people are meant to know what you are at any given time: Ministerial staff can presumably talk to civil servants and ask them to do things, but Leader's Office staff presumably can't, any more than Labour Leader's Office staff can. (If you're going to engage in the kind of hairsplitting sophistry going on here.)

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    Its kind of the the ‘its rugby, not tiddlywinks’ argument…until of course the hard man tactics puts a player in a wheelchair or a coffin.

    To use another football analogy, the ref has called a foul and now the Oily One wants to shift the goalposts.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5416 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Caleb D'Anvers,

    no one has to think too hard,

    Funny some dont see a correlation between thinking and talking.
    As if the mouth were autonomous

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1881 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    boxing on...

    I have backslid,
    and not only watched telly…
    but telly in the afternoon

    But wait.
    There's more.
    Much more.
    More discreet online methods are available from the
    Procurers & Purveyors Department at Parliament...
    Aural only options also available through the aether (1494 Khz AM in the Waikato), as well as via 'live screaming' or some such quasi-confabulatory application of techknowledgey-stuff...

    ;- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7887 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    And the day begins with the Prime Minister continuing to offer a ludicrous characterisation of the IGIS report which explicitly contradicts the report itself.

    The Herald's editorial this morning:

    Mr Tucker erred, badly. But it was the stimulation by the Prime Minister's staff of the official information request that prompted the whole sorry episode.

    None of the protagonists are still in their positions except Mr Key, who was in America when Mr Tucker released the note. Cheryl Gwyn did not summon the Prime Minister to the inquiry and has let him off too lightly. Under criticism by Mr Goff over the Israelis story, he needed to do more than invoke his own advice from the SIS.

    Three years on, it seems a trifling issue, but non-partisanship in the intelligence agencies is important. The Prime Minister should have shown better judgment and been discreet. His office should hold higher standards. Shabby politicisation of security information must be avoided.

    Jane Clifton this morning:

    Ede had been on the phone to Slater at the exact time the OIA request was lodged by email. How could that be "nothing to do with my office", as Key kept saying?

    Key airily dismissed this account as "quite contested" - while confoundingly insisting this did not mean the inspector-general's account was wrong, or that he disagreed with it. He might have added that black could be a little bit white, and water could be somewhat dry.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22749 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    patroniceties...

    Interestingly, Nicky Hagar says...

    ...says no such thing!
    But Nicky Hager
    he has many cogent thoughts...

    :- )
    Ibn ibid

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7887 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Ears looking at you kids...
    a new (old) bug has come to light in 'the works'...

    and just a reminder to those who don't subscribe to the hard copy of ABC's excellent magazine Peace Researcher that it is available on line

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7887 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    The thing that shocks me the most is the way Key outsourced his relationship with the SIS – of which he was the responsible minister – to a politically ppointed National party hack (De Joux). It sounds all to typical of a government whose ambient values are contemptuous of public service convention and democratic accountability.

    The thing that astonishes me the most is how comfortable all Key’s apologists are with that. I can only assume David Farrar will now be totally comfortable when prime minister Little allows Matt McCarten to independently get the SIS to trawl back through every email David Farrar ever exchanged with John Key and then get Bomber Bradbury to selectively OIA and publish them in a way that casts him in the worst possible light.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2212 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    The thing that shocks me the most is the way Key outsourced his relationship with the SIS – of which he was the responsible minister

    Is the day looming when the SIS is privatised in the interests of efficiency and independence?

    Neo liberalism at its most devilish extreme.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    New Snowden docs: GCHQ’s ties to telco gave spies global surveillance reach
    Access through “partners” such as Cable & Wireless pulls in gigabits globally.

    GCSB may not be mentioned in this article but then most Merkins don't even know we exist, just the ones with the power to "Rule Them All"...

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    ambient values

    Nice phrase! Can it be portmanteaued? Ambivalues? Government by ambivaluation.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10633 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    Is the day looming when the SIS is privatised in the interests of efficiency and independence?

    I was a bit surprised to see that the official inquiry outsourced the IT stuff to KPMG. Who did, so far as I can tell, absolutely nothing. The work that went into getting the mail from Slater to confirm what went on consisted of them asking for it, and him giving what he felt like, them noticing that he'd not given them everything they asked for, him giving a bit more and them leaving it at that.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10633 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    A question that has been bugging me for a while. What, exactly, does the "Prime Minister's Hat" look like?
    Is it kind of multi coloured and spikey with bells on it?.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Nah, it's gotta be a top hat. Really tall and shiny.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10633 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to BenWilson,

    it's gotta be a top hat.

    A Monopoly Character...

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Ben D, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    One assumes this would apposite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Uncle_Pennybags

    Auckland • Since Aug 2014 • 4 posts Report Reply

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