Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Metiria's Problem

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  • andin,

    . Intellect has no part to play when folks are trying to figure out who to trust.

    We're not living in the wild anymore despite the efforts of the past few decades by those with power and influence to turn back centuries of civilising us all. So intellect has a really important part to play in the placing of trust.
    But hey! we could always turn the clock back, there's a lot of people who seem to think they can, just by living in their intellectually constructed past.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1658 posts Report Reply

  • James Littlewood*, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    Hahahahahaha! The Greens wouldn’t know class if it bit them on the backside. Typically self-righteous of them though.

    Seriously? I don't think that's very fucking funny.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 398 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Emma Hart,

    The thing about the underlying ethos of the Electoral Commission is that they want to make it as easy as possible for people to vote. They have zero interest in making life difficult for people whose living situations are fluid or difficult or unusual

    This even shows up in the legislation if reading between the lines. The best example I can think of is section 82 which mandates that it's compulsory to enrol if eligible. But 82(6) then states that anyone who applies for registration is not liable for prosecution. ie. If you're found to be breaking the law, you can simply register and not be prosecuted. The law only cares about people who consciously continue to break it after being "reminded".

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1104 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to andin,

    intellect has a really important part to play in the placing of trust.

    So you can prove this is true by applying it to how voters will decide if Metiria Turei can be trusted to tell the truth nowadays, when they are wondering if voting green is a mistake. Explain to us how intellect plays a really important part in their decision. Or maybe you can't?

    Most people decide if someone is trustworthy by reading their body language (facial expression primarily), supplemented by intuition and gut instinct - all part of their emotional intelligence.

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • mpledger,

    Back when I was a university student, I seem to recall that the hostel students could vote for their "home" electorate even though they were living in Wellington.

    Since Oct 2012 • 80 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to Henry Barnard,

    Yes, I saw that on Pundit. I have asked him for clarification because, to my untutored reading of the relevant section ("A person resides at the place where that person chooses to make his or her home by reason of family or personal relations, or for other domestic or personal reasons") it seems to me that there is profound ambiguity in this clause. It seems to read as saying that one can call a place The-place-of-one's-residence if one chooses to regard it as one's home for "personal reasons". In other words, `home is where the heart is' and not where one actually resides in the ordinary sense of the word. And if Turei's heart was in the last place she lived where her friend was standing for election, then surely she perfectly free to choose to call that her home, and therefore her residence for electoral purposes.

    I'm seeking clarification too, Henry. The evolution of the Pundit thread has made Metiria's declaration seem as valid as John Key's re Helensville. If so, then the accusation that she committed electoral fraud ought to be directed at Key on the same basis. If this is all a straw man being waved by Paddy Gower, he ought to apologise to his viewers for screwing up. Doesn't mean the rest of media can avoid responsibility for recycling his accusation without doing their legal homework to discover he's wrong.

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • tussock,

    Is it perhaps worth noting again that the NZ benefit levels are set 20% below minimum survival costs, that no one who is on a benefit doesn't cheat the system somehow in order to survive, because it's impossible by design to survive on a benefit.

    It's been like this for twenty years now. Obviously we're going to have younger people who've been on benefits at some point who cheated a bit on their benefit applications. Once the rent subsidies came in and all the rents went up to capture them, obviously everyone on a benefit had to cheat those too, or go live in a fucking car or something.

    But I guess freedom camping's just a lifestyle choice, right.

    Since Nov 2006 • 587 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Toby Morris's most excellent Greed Vs. Need

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2554 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to tussock,

    Once the rent subsidies came in and all the rents went up to capture them, obviously everyone on a benefit had to cheat those too, or go live in a fucking car or something.

    It’s healthier and more sustainable to live in a boat. But like living in cars, there are all sorts of council regulations which are designed to make that as uncomfortable as bureaucratically Possible.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3865 posts Report Reply

  • James Littlewood*, in reply to Craig Young,

    Bravo!

    While it’s true that Metiria’s roll of the dice might not have turned up quite what she was hoping for, I don’t think it’s a bad outcome at all. I think both the Greens and Labour have demonstrated an ability to move fast and decisively and they’ve dominated the headlines now for the thick end of a month while National wallows in Colemanitis.

    I think it’s good that bigger Labour is now clearly positioned to the right of smaller Greens. I think that will work to the strategic advantage of both: Labour’s there for disaffected MOR National 2014 voters, and Greens are there for both disaffected Labour voters and those on the hard left.

    So even if there’s a push-me-pull-you between the Labour and the Green share of the party vote, there’s a coherency to the #ChangeTheGovt movement which was sorely lacking 2014.

    Link includes a plug for Craig’s useful list.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 398 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to James Littlewood*,

    and Greens are there for both disaffected Labour voters and those on the hard left.

    Your taking the piss, right?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3865 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to James Littlewood*,

    Your reference to the list - "a handy list of transgressions of currently sitting government ministers" - requires an amendment. Only one of the eight names on the list fits that description.

    I'll be voting Green for the 10th election in a row but disapprove your allocation of the Greens to the far left. At a stretch, it may seem to apply to the parliamentarians. It doesn't apply to the party as a whole, nor to the broader green movement. The authentic Green political position has always been neither left nor right.

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    emotional intelligence.

    That spectacularly misfiring brain function? Say hi to it, next time you meet.

    Explain to us how intellect plays a really important part in their decision. Or maybe you can’t?

    I cant speak for the rest of humanity But thinking about stuff and recognizing faulty reasoning or one's own or others prejudices seems to work

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1658 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Young, in reply to James Littlewood*,

    I live to serve! ;) Can anyone calculate the sums involved in the cases of fiscal malfeasance in this cases I've cited above? NB: I used Wikipedia to compile the list.

    Incidentally, why has no-one suggested or analysed how the probable uptick in Labour’s opinion poll ratings will impact on New Zealand First, which has historically been the beneficiary of major opposition party opinion poll softness- whether National or Labour?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 460 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to Craig Young,

    why has no-one suggested or analysed how the probable uptick in Labour's opinion poll ratings will impact on New Zealand First, which has historically been the beneficiary of major opposition party opinion poll softness- whether National or Labour?

    Depends on the extent of the shift. Trotter reckons it could be as much as 10% but I'm picking 6% - half of that from each of NZF & Greens. Depends also how keen the crucial 3-5% of centrist swing-voters that normally produce our election outcomes are to change the government. Economy's good, so that traditional determinant doesn't apply currently. I suspect centrists are seeing the Nats as stale, noticing the Nat sleaze factor kicking in again, but still waiting for the left to provide what looks like a government in waiting rather than a shambles.

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    "economy's good" That rather depends on where you're sitting. Or maybe where you sleep.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2062 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    Yeah. My comment was re that small group of swing-voters who normally determine election outcomes. Early July the Roy Morgan poll had those who think the country is headed in the right direction at 63% (the other two recent polls don't ask that question).

    That evidence suggests no shift is likely. Complacency usually prevails in Aotearoa. But sometimes even centrists feel in the mood for a change...

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 153 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    I sometimes wonder how much different would the whole controversy be, if it was a pale, blonde, blue-eyed woman MP committing the exact same acts as Metiria? Anti-welfarism commonly has a coded racism underpinning it, as was the case with "Cadillac-driving welfare queens" in Reagan's America.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5328 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    That evidence suggests no shift is likely. Complacency usually prevails in Aotearoa. But sometimes even centrists feel in the mood for a change...

    Overseas, such complacency has been bowled over by the Great Recession. NZ hasn't felt the full effects of it yet - it would most likely take the form a hard housing crash - but all the same, if middle NZ increasingly perceives Bill English to be hoarding like a tax haven client while hospitals struggle to get blood out of a stone...

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5328 posts Report Reply

  • izogi,

    Yikes. David Clendon and Kennedy Graham are threatening to resign. Info seems ambiguous right now, but Stuff is presently reporting their resignations were accepted.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95542553/two-green-mps-threaten-to-quit-over-metiria-turei
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/336665/two-green-mps-call-for-turei-to-step-down

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1104 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    They've had 3 weeks to discover their principles. If they threatened resignation then, but kept it in-house, then I'd like to know what's been going on. I'll cut them some slack if they have been holding back from going public, while begging Metiria to quit.

    But if they have only decided now, then they can bugger off. On grounds of political incompetence, if nothing else.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1213 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody,

    Very sad. I have always had a lot of respect for Kennedy G in his parliamentary comment and work. The new list recruits must find this worrying as well.

    Palmerston North • Since Sep 2014 • 760 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to simon g,

    Purely speculative on my part but I wonder whether there are more revelations known on the inside that have since come to light and that was a tipping point.

    Palmerston North • Since Sep 2014 • 760 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    Purely speculative on my part but I wonder whether there are more revelations known on the inside that have since come to light and that was a tipping point.

    Based on my conversation with a longtime Green activist last week, my guess is that this has been brewing for a while among part of the membership as frustration with Metiria's perceived flakiness – she wants to go and be an anarchist again/she wants to be a Minister of the Crown – and the poor political handling of the confession is a final straw.

    Maybe? I dunno. But it's terrible timing.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22227 posts Report Reply

  • Neil, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Shaw is in a difficult position.

    Since Nov 2016 • 142 posts Report Reply

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