Hard News: The Casino
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and if so if it was worth bothering with.
it seems such a small thing, but obviously media owners have viewed it differently and seen fit to protect all features vigorously.
if music media owners had played media player computability differently (ie fought to have data drives in computers not be CD compatible or in another shape or size) and sought to keep didn't and it was a simple process to bring music into computers which later became the gateway to open distribution.
its very interesting to see how written media play this.
national libraries have most of the worlds news papers viewable for free on line. these are not in cut and paste-able format. you can screen shot it but you can't copy the text. an interesting way to present their product which does restrict its use in a similar way to kindle t2s restricts use. -
apologies, my second paragraph got mangled some how.
should readif music media owners had played media player compatibility differently (ie fought to have data drives in computers not be CD compatible or in another shape or size) and sought to keep it that way, but they didn't and it was a simple process to bring music into computers which later became the gateway to open distribution.
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seriously I did say something related to that discussion.
It's disappointing that you've chosen to turn it into another personal fight with you, and reading your comments its clear you are not addressing the content of what I said but merely that it was me who said them.I didn't choose it, I hate it, but it seemed to me that you were just doing the usual wind-up, and that no one had actually expressed any of the views you recited with respect to this discussion. I had a couple of emails from people who thought so too, and were annoyed. Whatever.
the text to speech function on kindle is a small small thing from my perspective hardly worth worrying about,
Okay, thanks.
but obviously media owners see it as a thin edge of a wedge. That they have managed to get someone to disable it is impressive. its their 'DRM battle' or one of them and they achieved it successfully.
I just don't think disabling technology in those circumstances was very clever.
As Islander has highlighted some writers have fought quite strongly to maintain control of their material in the dangerous digital world. As soon as it hits the web in an un-hindered un-control form they know they're fucked. They know it cos they've watched other media be consumed by it before.
Just a thought: in which case, would it not be wiser for the Authors' Guild to look to ensure that the very secure, DRM-happy, non-internet-capable Kindle was as appealing to consumers as possible? Seriously, it doesn't make sense to turn it into a piracy discussion.
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Mark got pseudo angry
Hmm, somehow I missed that comment. Whatever.
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I know next-to-nothing about T2S, but I'd be surprised if the main reason for disabling it weren't that it'd be a simple way to circumvent the "DRM" built into the kindle. T2S speech sounds dreadful, but is likely to be fairly easily interpreted by, eg Dragon. So the book reads itself into a text file and we're off....
Ok, it's probably a pin-hole in the water-soluable dyke of copyright vs the digital sea. Certainly not a solution to copyright being broken. -
As Islander has highlighted some writers have fought quite strongly to maintain control of their material in the dangerous digital world. As soon as it hits the web in an un-hindered un-control form they know they're fucked. They know it cos they've watched other media be consumed by it before.
Or, the Baen Free Library, which has an extensive statement of position from Eric Flint on its landing page about why they're giving away e-books for free.
A small sample, please check context if you wanna argue:
In the course of this debate, I mentioned it to my publisher Jim Baen. He more or less virtually snorted and expressed the opinion that if one of his authors — how about you, Eric? — were willing to put up a book for free online that the resulting publicity would more than offset any losses the author might suffer.
The minute he made the proposal, I realized he was right. After all, Dave Weber's On Basilisk Station has been available for free as a "loss leader" for Baen's for-pay experiment "Webscriptions" for months now. And — hey, whaddaya know? — over that time it's become Baen's most popular backlist title in paper!
And so I volunteered my first novel, Mother of Demons, to prove the case. And the next day Mother of Demons went up online, offered to the public for free.
Sure enough, within a day, I received at least half a dozen messages (some posted in public forums, others by private email) from people who told me that, based on hearing about the episode and checking out Mother of Demons, they either had or intended to buy the book. In one or two cases, this was a "gesture of solidarity. "But in most instances, it was because people preferred to read something they liked in a print version and weren't worried about the small cost — once they saw, through sampling it online, that it was a novel they enjoyed.
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Not everybody wants to do that.
Actually, not a lot of writers want to do thatWell, I wish I had a dollar for all the things I have to do on a regular basis that I don't want to do. Then I could hire someone else to do them for me.
Mark- do you realise that PUBLISHERS put authors 'on the road'? They have *publicists* who do all the boring crap(contacting media,arranging travel and hotels/whatever) and *local booksellers* generally front up to sell the bloody books?
Yes, I do know that, Islander. That was my point. Writers have to do that already under the current model that you want to persist with. So what changes? Do you stop to think about why publishers do that? Because it encourages sales. Wow. Under robbery's proposal, you'd have to do all that for yourself if you choose to not be with a major publisher, but you still have to do it.
Authors do not scurry round the traps with knapsacks of books - o, wait a moment, you wouldnt know that would you?
And actually, I do know authors who travel with a box of books in the back of the car, even though you may not. If you're going to call me out for making assumptions, try dealing with your own plank first.
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ie fought to have data drives in computers not be CD compatible or in another shape or size
And if they had succeeded they would have been usurping control of the CD patent from its owners. Similarly, I think I have the right, outside of public performance, to read a book I have bought out loud or have someone read it to me.
Feeling strongly or having your business hurt isn't a full justification. If you try to control the use of your content over and above copyright (outside some particular contract arrangement, which admittedly is probably how the kindle thing pans out) it just looks like bullying.
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i agree with Jackie about pseudonyms.
i've never been to a casino so i can't comment about that.
but i find the idea of going very unappealing.(and my 10-year-old son will tell you that i have an aesthetic grudge against the AK one: "dad, is that really the world's tallest unpainted concrete sewer pipe? you're just making that up, aren't you?)
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the Authors' Guild to look to ensure that the very secure, DRM-happy, non-internet-capable Kindle was as appealing to consumers as possible?
I don't know why they did what they did, it seems small to me but as I said, thin edge of the wedge and as rob stowell pointed out, maybe so.
Ok, it's probably a pin-hole in the water-soluable dyke of copyright vs the digital sea.
that's bloody good that is.
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And if they had succeeded they would have been usurping control of the CD patent from its owners.
I was more thinking the cd patient owners (is it philips and sony) should have been lobbied to no let their format be used in computers. imagine if we had weird rectangular data storage media instead of round shiny ones. they'd be incomparable, no slot on a computer to insert your cd and the whole thing might have played out differently.
The kindle thing may be a link in a chain to keep well away from the possibility that its one step closer to automated transcription of a book which is one step too close to losing control.
to read a book I have bought out loud or have someone read it to me.
I agree, it seems wrong when viewed like that but in a bigger picture I can see what might be going on and at least understand the motivation and perspective.
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Feeling strongly or having your business hurt isn't a full justification. If you try to control the use of your content over and above copyright (outside some particular contract arrangement, which admittedly is probably how the kindle thing pans out) it just looks like bullying.
Another way of looking at it is that if technologies were routinely disabled because they might facilitate infringement, we wouldn't have the internet.
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Another way of looking at it is that if technologies were routinely disabled because they might facilitate infringement, we wouldn't have the internet.
or cameras or photocopiers or computers or even pen and paper, which possibly could mean the lack of ability to create material that could be infringed.
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Russell - audio rights are usually between 10% & 20% (on the contracts I have had). This is *considerably* higher than ordinary paperback rights which edge up from between 6%- 71/2% to 10% as sales increase. (Trade paperbacks attract higher royalties - between 10% to 15%.Hardbacks are also in that range.) 'Ancillary rights' just covers the non-book formats of your work. And, because audio rights can be a very nice supplement to your royalty cheque (I'm going on other writers' talk here), people get quite nervous when it looks like they're going to be subsumed.
I agree with your comments re the net & 'routine disabling of functions' but I dont think that was what was going on with the Kindle2. The fact that Amazon backed off shows that - for me, anyway.
Mark H - writers *dont* have to do signings, reading tours et al. Your publisher will have a clause in about "reasonable publicity" but a writer can define this. For instance, one of my writing friends was bedridden and 'reasonable publicity' for them was a short radio interview. I did quite a bit of festival and lit.con. work, as well as 5 overseas reading tours, in the first 15 years after my first book was published, but never signings. It was fun then, and I met many truly interesting people, but it became more tiring & tiresome as time went on...
And yes, I know several ANZ writers who carry copies of their book/s for sale. Some have self-published, and some have had their books remaindered (this can happen after *six months*!). It seems a good and practical way to go about things in the circumstances -but it isnt the usual way.Jackie C - thank you!
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Russell - audio rights are usually between 10% & 20% (on the contracts I have had). This is *considerably* higher than ordinary paperback rights which edge up from between 6%- 71/2% to 10% as sales increase.
Yeah, I read a bit more after I asked about that -- those audiobook rates are clearly very valuable to authors, although that's only been a relatively recent thing, no?
And yes, I know several ANZ writers who carry copies of their book/s for sale. Some have self-published, and some have had their books remaindered (this can happen after *six months*!). It seems a good and practical way to go about things in the circumstances -but it isnt the usual way.
Hell yes. I think there's something quite noble about it. Here are my wares ... I now own the remaining copies of Great New Zealand Argument , although I tend to give those away.
BTW, I've just passed on an email from Unity Books in Wellington in pursuit of David Haywood's book. The power of Kim Hill! I gather the feedback on David's appearance was enthusiastic.
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-quite recent Russell - within the last decade basically.
Great for David! Well done, PA publishing-
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Great for David! Well done, PA publishing-
All David's doing. He's extraordinary.
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Yeah, I read a bit more after I asked about that -- those audiobook rates are clearly very valuable to authors, although that's only been a relatively recent thing, no?
And those should probably not be taken away. But is t2s actually going to do that? The difference between t2s and real voice is not like the difference between high and low def TV. It's bigger even than the difference between color and black-and-white TV. To me, listening to t2s is roughly on par with trying to watch an original Baird TV. Which is to say, it's bloody awesome if it's the only way, and bloody awful when set against the modern alternative. The crack it's going to fill is giving speech to anything that doesn't already have a real audiobook for it.
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Ben Wilson - Rob Stowell back on page 13 put it best -it is potemtially already possible to convert a TTS function to a downloadable good-quality audio file...and new developements are in the offing-
bang go audio-books if they arnt ringfenced (which they still are...)
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The quality difference in the voicing seems large, but then look how many folk regard MP3 as acceptable quality for music?
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Another way of looking at it is that if technologies were routinely disabled because they might facilitate infringement, we wouldn't have the internet.
That's a bit of a leap at best.
back when I originally invented the internet in the 70's I had no idea you would ever be able to send a song film or book down it. Hell it was so slow I was pleased to be able to email through unhindered.The internet would still be around it would just be different.
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The quality difference in the voicing seems large, but then look how many folk regard MP3 as acceptable quality for music?
It's not the same thing at all though. MP3 is a resolution issue -- it's a matter of how fine you want the detail on your music.
T2S is a machine reading text, really just a display function. The machine can never understand what it reads, and I think that's insurmountable until such a time as machines have feelings. It could be a while.
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Islander - some days I pinch myself that I get to come to a place where I have the opportunity to have discourse with people that I greatly admire. That's all.
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writers *dont* have to do signings, reading tours et al. Your publisher will have a clause in about "reasonable publicity" but a writer can define this.
And you can still not do this under robbery's model. As I noted, nothing would change there. My point was that writers do this already. I'll amend that to some writers do this already.
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Ben Wilson - Rob Stowell back on page 13 put it best -it is potemtially already possible to convert a TTS function to a downloadable good-quality audio file...and new developements are in the offing-
I understood Rob to be saying was that you could get a dodgy machine reader to read it into fairly dodgy voice recognition software and end up with a text file that would resemble the original text.
Seems to me it'd be much easier to cut the spine off a hardcopy and run it through a scanner.
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