Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The fake news problem

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  • mark taslov, in reply to Farmer Green,

    Despite the endless barrage of gender assumption things are going ok FG, how are you?

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Trevor Nicholls,

    Show me the correct numbers then.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 757 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to mark taslov,

    I think I'm O.K., but that is not a popular view in some quarters.
    The season is proving to be very challenging, and I am being very careful when I talk to other dairy farmers, most of whom are hard up against the wall in several ways , with no end in sight.
    I am so out of step with most of the agriculture in Godzone, that I might be better to say nothing. That seems to apply here to.
    But I was interested in this idea that it might be time to start talking to each other, and I thought that it might be possible without the usual logical fallacies ad nauseum.
    Too soon to say really. But I seem to be wrong on all counts so far.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 757 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Farmer Green,

    I’m glad to hear you’re managing. Groupthink being one of the more dangerous and pervasive threats to humanity, I can appreciate and respect the course of action you are choosing. Obviously being labelled a troll comes with the territory.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Trevor Nicholls, in reply to Farmer Green,

    Show me the correct numbers then.

    The numbers that matter are:
    - the actual vote totals in each state
    - the actual states that contribute electors to the electoral college

    Mr Asshole wants to give Trump's win extra legitimacy by only counting 44 states and dismissing the excess votes in the others as liberal elites whose votes aren't important.

    Can you not see how that is dishonest? Why should Mr Asshole be taken seriously?

    Wellington, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 305 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew R266, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Well MSM can always chose to run good truth checking. Radio NZ has done some. In Australia it looks like ABC and The Conversation were fact check sites to go to in last election. Are these MSM?

    Since Sep 2014 • 8 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Andrew R266,

    The Conversation:-( don’t get me started! I had to get the press council growling at the NZ Herald over a bit of bullshit in a story they brought from The Conversation. The Herald version was removed after the press council used strong words.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4063 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green, in reply to Trevor Nicholls,

    I thought that his whole thesis was merely a rejoinder to those who were arguing that Clinton held the moral high ground on the " strength " of having won the irrelevant popular vote.
    Why do you think that it was dishonest?
    Anyway the point was that the facts remained the same: the numbers were not fudged.
    That was the only point of relevance to the discussion we were having.

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 757 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Twitter finally takes action against fascists. Bookface next?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19573 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to steven crawford,

    I had to get the press council growling at the NZ Herald over a bit of bullshit in a story they brought from The Conversation.

    link/s?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19573 posts Report Reply

  • Farmer Green,

    O.K. I’m getting it now.
    Alt- right (WTF?) = misogynist, racist , neofascist.
    That clears that up.
    What does the "alt" signify?

    Lower North Island • Since Nov 2012 • 757 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to Farmer Green,

    But seriously, were the facts being misrepresented? Was what I said that I read somewhere a blatant lie about the facts, or not?

    Yes. The facts were being misrepresented. There is no question Trump won, because he one more electoral college votes due to the rust belt swing states, but the maths in the article is rubbish.

    1) Clinton 62,410,968, Trump 61,248,402. The blog post systematically underestimates clintons numbers by half.
    2) Winning both the popular vote and the electoral college confers a moral mandate you don't get by only winning the electoral college. This is why members of the far right, in the post-truth atmosphere, are claiming "actually, Trump also won the popular vote". He didn't, but there is value to making the claim demonstrated by the making of it. This is why the popular vote is not completely irrelevant- its relevancy is demonstrate by people lying about it.
    3) States, and selective counting of them, is a genuine pointless metric. You will acknowledge that Clinton won a lot more than 6 states, which is not as you remember the article but was the misleading idea that the article successfully conveyed to you. You can see how pointless the metric is by reversing it. Taking Trumps 6 best states winning margins totals, and comparing it to Clinton's lead in the 44 other states, in Trumps 6 "bulwark" (to use the blogs made up definitions) Trump got a lead of 3686806 votes, in the other 44 states Clinton leads by a total of 4111625. By the blogs own logic, Clinton is the winner for being a representative candidate. This is why the blog is misleading bullshit.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1443 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    Thanks DH.
    Also worth noting: when the article starts and goes on with crude name calling, it's not likely to be reliable.
    The argument that senators and the electoral college are there to protect the rights of individual states is quite true. That was the rationale. It's also fairly obvious its not very democratic - if you believe a key democraric principle is the vote of every eligible adult being more or less equal.
    The constitution was written for very different times. It's a sign of America's weakness and decline that now it is close to impossible to change it.
    Pres Trump might have a go at the first amendment but only because he doesn't get this yet.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2086 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    It’s a sign of America’s weakness and decline that now it is close to impossible to change it.

    I'm going to have to disagree with that- it would potentially be really, really easy to completely change the constitution in 2 or 4 years, depending on the next election results.

    http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a50672/state-legislatures-republicans/

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1443 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    How feasible would it be to fight misinformation with misinformation?

    "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

    Leaving that aside, it's hard to see what misinformation would actually be effective. The actual easily verifiable things that Trump said and did had more or less zero effect where it counted. Mexicans are all rapists? Deport all muslims? Bankrupt multiple times, and rips off small businesses? Essentially zero cut-through.

    Where do you go from there? Photoshop him eating a baby?

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Rich Lock,

    Where do you go from there? Photoshop him eating a baby?

    Sustained “alt news" aimed directly at his business empire. In other words, kick him in the nuts.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4063 posts Report Reply

  • Trevor Nicholls, in reply to steven crawford,

    Sustained “alt news" aimed directly at his business empire.

    I suspect that "actual news" exposing his business empire would do just as well. For some reason the media, supposedly beholden to the left, simply won't tackle it (with one or two exceptions, e.g. Farenthold; we'll have to see if they expand their efforts now).

    Wellington, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 305 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to David Hood,

    Didnt realise 2/3 of the states were so close. Still reckon it's unlikely but who knows - a hugely popular president trump and a booming economy?

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2086 posts Report Reply

  • Neil, in reply to mark taslov,

    Well it’s not altogether surprising that when we cut the population in half and divisively socialise each half in different ways – primarily according to their genitals – that some people then perpetuate and aggravate this division.

    Trump as victim. He had no choice but to boast about groping women since Hillary is divisive.

    I'm more and more inclined to think that it's misogyny that is playing a very large part in what's going wrong at the moment.

    Since Nov 2016 • 286 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Farmer Green,

    Attachment

    some may say that the election was rigged, but I have not seen that contention put forward here.

    Every 'ship of fools' has rigging....
    :- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7776 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    The church of density...
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/86551648/opinion-brian-tamaki-can-go-to-hell-but-his-followers-can-still-be-saved
    seems to fit here insofar as fake news for modern humans goes....

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7776 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    This Daily Beast story, 48 Hours in Facebook’s Unreality, is staggering:

    According to Trendolizer, a variation on EndTheFed’s story “Since Donald Trump Won the Presidency… Ford Shifts Truck Production from Mexico to Ohio” trended three times over the last 24 hours.

    Ford shifted its truck production from Mexico to Ohio in August 2015, not this week, and the move had nothing to do with Trump. That didn’t seem to matter for EndTheFed, whose post was shared 15,000 times, or ViralLiberty.com, whose nearly verbatim post trended later on Monday.

    By the time DonaldTrumpNews.co’s headline “BREAKING: Since Donald Trump Won The Presidency Ford Shifts Truck Production From Mexico To Ohio” racked up 20,600 shares, there was a startling development in the real world.

    Ford CEO Mark Fields announced his company was doing the opposite of the viral reports on Facebook. “Ford Motor Co. is moving ahead with plans to shift production of small cars to Mexico from Michigan,” Reuters reporter Alexandria Sage wrote at 5 p.m. Tuesday.

    That story—entirely true—had 233 shares on Reuters’ Facebook page at press time.

    The NY Times’ Zeynep Tifekci says it’s been going on at that intensity for months. The likes of us just didn’t notice. She has a long Twitter thread about it today.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22584 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    The US MSM is in a state of virtual melt down over Trump, often simply because he plans to do things differently. They seem incapable of distinguishing between the merely breaking with tradition - living in Trump tower instead of the Whitehouse, not letting the press know every time he takes a dump - to the obviously worrying, like his wierd twitter rants and the obvious cronyism and corruption already evident in his woefully inadequate transition process. As long as the media insists on portraying Trump as a crazy chump on things that are of no consequence those sections of the general population who are not so adept at sifting legitimate news from the fake, the snake and the noise are going to carry on believing the MSM conspiracy against "the Donald" is real - because actually, it kinda is.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2203 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Shaun King of the New York Daily News on a despicable and misleading Facebook post by Mike Huckabee about a hoax hate crime that happened eight months ago, but which Huckabee portrays as having just happened.

    Most worryingly, Huckabee introduces the entirely false claim that the two students responsible were Jewish (he appears to have picked this up from yet another fake news site). It's Huckabee's most popular post in months.

    This is really chilling.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22584 posts Report Reply

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