Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: We are, at last, navigating out of the "meth contamination" debacle

106 Responses

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  • Sacha,

    RNZ's Benedict Collins has a concise update (4 mins).

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19543 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    I thoroughly recommend reading the comments section on the Kiwiblog post on this matter.

    Kiwiblog is like having a webcam in a tankful of giant hissing cockroaches. While their antics have little effect on the course of events, they provide Reepicheep - and you too, it would seem - with hours of online fun.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4586 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Jason Kemp,

    I'm surprised that some enterprising persons haven't set up a business to literally launder banknotes.

    I've got these dollars from Nigeria that just need ink removed...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7743 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Max Barwell,

    That would given them a nice easy way to get people out without the bad PR ala Niki Rauti and not honour that promise.

    On that note - go see Dieneke Jansens 90 DAYS + installation at Te Tuhi

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7743 posts Report Reply

  • Neil,

    I can understand why Twyford wants to make life difficult for National but at present he’s making that a priority over compensating those who have suffered an injustice.

    It’s all too reminiscent of his attitude to reform of body Corp laws - he’s dragging his heels because Nikki Kaye has been the one doing all the work on that issue.

    Building is Labour’s biggest challenge. Its optimistic goals rest on the assumption that the building industry is functional and honest. Standing back and looking at all the scandals that continue to surface from meth decontamination to Hawkins at Middlemore a loser look at that assumption would be wise. I’m not sure Twyford is the right person for that.

    Since Nov 2016 • 260 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    It's not even necessary to go to Kiwiblog (and I'd rather not), the wisdom of Stuff comments will serve.

    Respect for evidence has lasted about 24 hours before the myths and spin return.

    The phrase "err on the side of caution" is a recurring line - so reasonable, so responsible, and so much easier than getting information.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1269 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    It is marvel of the type, full of the simple rejection of inconvenient science through the creation from thin air of nebulous conspiracy theories.

    There's a whole sub-culture of science denial and conspiracy nutters in NZ if you look in the right places. Sometimes it's politically charged, but it doesn't need to be. Modern social media helps these people to find each other and accelerates the paranoia. Without meaning to suggest there aren't sometimes legitimate concerns, it comes up a lot in arguments about pest control (on the level of DOC, OSPRI, councils, etc), which I spend a fair amount of time watching and interacting with. eg. This group, which is basically rallied through facebook, had their day in the Court of Appeal yesterday, having been more or less laughed out of the earlier courts, and are now awaiting a decision. Dave Hansford's description of their lawyer from the linked article is:

    By late afternoon on the day of the drop, Brook activists were posting on Facebook that they were succumbing to poisoning: lawyer for the group, Sue Grey, complained that her "exposed skin was red and burning", and urged her compatriots: "If my health suddenly deteriorates please can someone make sure that I get an urgent injection of Vitamin K."

    It behoves us to understand just what the hell is going on here, because solutions to the monumental problems we have to solve – climate change, biodiversity loss, water pollution, human health – can only be informed by science.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Vitamin K helps with sunburn?

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2589 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    they provide Reepicheep - and you too, it would seem - with hours of online fun.

    Thank the gods I had swallowed my mouthful of coffee before I clicked the link or my screen would have worn it. I've never heard him called that before, but it's so fitting.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2909 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    A really good, detailed story on the whole shitshow by Henry Cooke.

    He leads with the story of an 87 year-old woman who was told by Housing NZ she not only had to leave the home she'd lived in for 60 years, but that she had to leave her possessions behind. It seems one of her grandkids had used meth in the house, but none of what followed was remotely justified. This is how completely insane it got.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22584 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming,

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2909 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to nzlemming,

    I've never heard him called that before...

    "Oh yes and I loved Reepicheep – as I knew I would."

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4586 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    Vitamin K helps with brodifacoum poisoning, which is what they were imagining they'd been exposed to whilst protesting next to a brodi drop. ("I feel sick. It must be the brodifacoum over there which I'm protesting against!!!!", and all that.) Vets will usually give vitamin K to a dog if they suspect the dog's eaten a brodi-poisoned carcass.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    Is there any legal recourse, such as a class-action lawsuit, against the former Ministers and meth test companies involved?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5397 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    If there were any recourse – any I’m not convinced there would be – I would expect it to be against the Ministry of Health, and/or Standards NZ; the former for not acting to dispel the misconception that the lab decontamination target was a threshold to trigger smoke residue "decontamination"; and the latter for including on their standard-setting panel people with a vested interest in a low threshold.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    There is record of MoH repeatedly advising HNZ of exactly that. Some HNZ managers, their then-CEO and Board are subsequently responsible for ignoring them. The then-Chair is still in place and refusing to resign.

    For some reason the current Minister believes an investigation conducted by HNZ will fairly examine that situation.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19543 posts Report Reply

  • Prudence, in reply to Worik Stanton,

    I wonder where Mike Sabin fits into this picture?

    Where ever, I would suggest it a nice snug fit

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 15 posts Report Reply

  • izogi,

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Sacha,

    Some HNZ managers, their then-CEO and Board are subsequently responsible for ignoring them. The then-Chair is still in place and refusing to resign

    A tricky thing – I know that at least one of those board members hadn’t been ignoring the humanitarian problems in housing New Zealand at all. But they didn’t have the political power to overrule anything. But what that board member was doing, was working as a drug addiction councillor, without being paid any money. And advocating for better funding for professional addiction treatment programs, particularly in community’s where poverty is prolific.

    It’s been more a case of the mob mentality generating rational bias problems, than just people in positions of privilege and power…

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4035 posts Report Reply

  • Neil, in reply to steven crawford,

    It’s been more a case of the mob mentality generating rational bias problems, than just people in positions of privilege and power…

    More broadly our social welfare institutions are being tasked with more complex situations at the same time institutions are becoming more risk averse – for good reason, the prospect of being dragged through the courts is very real.

    Originally state housing was just that – housing. Now it has to be at the centre of an evermore complex nexus of response to a wide range of social vulnerabilities. It’s not easy and solutions are hard to develop. Housing First is an example of what solutions might look like.

    Since Nov 2016 • 260 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Neil,

    our social welfare institutions are being tasked with more complex situations at the same time institutions are becoming more risk averse –

    Just maybe more variables not adding much to the complexity and surely able enough to be coped with. Risk aversion probably played a greater part, what with accountants looking over your shoulder counting pennies.
    But FFS ages ago we got rid of monarchs when their unholy alliance with the church caused more suffering than they could hide.
    But what are we stuck with now, a satanic alliance between govt, business and the financial worlds? How much will they hide to make themselves look good? And how long will people have to put up with it?

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1715 posts Report Reply

  • Neil, in reply to andin,

    Just maybe more variables not adding much to the complexity and surely able enough to be coped with.

    In acute health settings the pattern is of increasing numbers of complex cases within an increasingly complex multi-agency setting.

    With state housing the housing is now only a prelude to further state intervention. That’s significantly different and harder than the original vision of state housing.

    Since Nov 2016 • 260 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Neil,

    multi-agency

    govts are making it more complex?Is that what your saying?

    prelude to further state intervention.

    Why intervention?
    To make sure they are worthy of a house?
    I know some think they have the right to vet everything anyone else does especially if they rely on the state for anything. Its called being self righteous. That is the sort of opinion that needs to be ignored not glorified

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1715 posts Report Reply

  • Neil, in reply to andin,

    govts are making it more complex?Is that what your saying?

    No, rather that co-ordinating between agencies is difficult.

    Social welfare has gone from simply paying benefits to, if Ian Lambie’s advice is heeded, early assertive social interventions based on statistical data. It’s quite a shift.

    Since Nov 2016 • 260 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    An important story by RNZ's Kate Newton on the miserable standard of evidence the Tenancy Tribunal has accepted in “meth contamination” cases. People were effectively “convicted” on a balance of probabilities.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22584 posts Report Reply

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