Polity by Rob Salmond

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Polity: House-buying patterns in Auckland

521 Responses

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  • BenWilson, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    It’s true that plenty of Pacific people have “European” names, but still.

    It is. But, as with the ethnic Asian population in the study, that doesn't really matter much. The method of estimating the proportion of people in the data who are, in fact, Pacific people, is quite sound, when used in the aggregate like this. If 2% of people with the name Smith are PI, then in a sample with 1000 people called Smith, 20 PIs is a very good guess. When you're building their total number using all the different names, you're going to get a number that is very accurate in the end, so long as a person's surname is independent of their propensity to buy property (which is a reasonable assumption). Amongst PIs we don't have any real reason to think that Smiths are more likely to buy than Mataeles.

    So yeah, it's depressing all right. And it's also predictable. PIs are poorer, on the whole, than most other groups. We'd pretty much expect to see this.

    It's because these inferences also pop out of the data that I find it hard to say the study is racist by design. Yes, there was really only one stand out point, that the Ethnic Asians have this very different proportion. And that really only stands out because people keep disputing it. The idea that Pacific people get a shitty deal on owning property isn't really controversial.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10633 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Homer, in reply to BenWilson,

    You’re pretty much saying the data isn’t all public, ever, and even what is public is at considerable (at least for a lot of data) cost, which you’re meant to pay to get it?

    Property title data, including owners, is public and freely available. The LINZ data service is excellent. To figure out transfers you'd need to compare two snapshots, I think.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 82 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    I find it hard to say the study is racist by design

    only in presentation

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19686 posts Report Reply

  • Andre,

    This story replicates my experience dealing with foreign owners who are non-resident as a tenant. No interest. No recourse. http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/70288726/Flood-victim-picks-up-pieces-after-hard-night

    New Zealand • Since May 2009 • 350 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Andre,

    dealing with foreign owners who are non-resident

    It seems that the landlord is too cheap to engage a letting agent, who once upon a time would have been a tenant's first avenue of recourse. While it may be of little comfort to tenants, a high profile neglected property sometimes engages the interest of the media. If this ongoing mess is any indication, it then becomes a race (no pun intended) to claim the moral high ground by accusing your opponents of racism.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    So my understanding is if the landlord won't fix shit, you can get relief from the Tenancy Tribunal. Landlords are obliged to keep a place in a reasonable state of repair. The flipside of an overseas landlord not being around to do shit to help you is they can't hurt you as easily either. You may get relief in the form of deducting repair costs from rent.

    Having said that, NZ is awash in advice for the landlord class, not so much for the poor old tenant, and we socialise tenants to accept what they're given, and a vindictive landlord will find a reason to kick you out. Landlords almost always have better resources to draw on than tenants.

    One of the things that shits me about housing debate in NZ is its laser focus on owning when we could improve people's lives so much with better security of tenure and minimum standards for housing. Bleargh.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    One of the things that shits me about housing debate in NZ is its laser focus on owning when we could improve people's lives so much with better security of tenure and minimum standards for housing.

    Yes. Let's see more parties than the Greens promoting that.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19686 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    "Yes. Let’s see more parties than the Greens promoting that."

    The latter at least is also Labour policy. Not sure about security of tenure. But it's not just the Greens.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    yep. I meant more the security of tenure. But anyone valuing the postion of renters rather than owners is great Coalition fodder.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19686 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    One of the things that shits me about housing debate in NZ is its laser focus on owning when we could improve people’s lives so much with better security of tenure and minimum standards for housing. Bleargh.

    Unfortunately, such meaningful reform is up against a property-owning class that’s more powerful than the House of Lords. Call them if you will the House of Lords of Houses.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5418 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Unfortunately, such meaningful reform is up against a property-owning class that’s more powerful than the House of Lords. Call them if you will the House of Lords of Houses.

    And the members are on both sides of the Aisle.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Michael Homer,

    Property title data, including owners, is public and freely available. The LINZ data service is excellent. To figure out transfers you’d need to compare two snapshots, I think.

    Yeah, nah. The Property Titles layer "provides title information (excluding ownership) where there is a data link to one or more primary parcels."

    You can request access to the Closed Access Group, but there's a hoop or two to jump through first, and a licencing agreement to accept. Still free, as far as I can see, but not immediately available. I know a few people who do have full access and they're usually in the land business (like surveyors, valuers etc). Was quite handy when we were fighting NZTA about the Kapiti Expressway.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5418 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Homer, in reply to nzlemming,

    but there’s a hoop or two to jump through first, and a licencing agreement to accept

    The "hoop" is providing an email address and the licence just agreeing not to retain certain data that may have become hidden. It's not an obstacle.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 82 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    The flipside of an overseas landlord not being around to do shit to help you is they can’t hurt you as easily either.

    The Residential Tenancies Act 1986 requires landlords who are out of the country for 21 days or longer to appoint a local agent.

    'Course, the tenant has to know about that to complain about it.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Chinatown redux...
    a quote from Paolo Bacigalupi's The Water Knife that seems apposite:

    "Pure data: you don't believe data, you test data... If I could put my finger on the moment we genuinely fucked ourselves, it was the moment we decided data was something you coud use words like believe or disbelieve around."

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7889 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    The guy who just sold me some beer is trying to buy a house with his wife.

    They've been to nine auctions so far and all nine have been won by telephone bidders.

    He did feel like he was up against it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22754 posts Report Reply

  • John Farrell,

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 486 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to John Farrell,

    With the houses thing only being with one day of the polling period, it can' that've had much effect.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1443 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to David Hood,

    Agree – my perception is that the opposition collectively have been driving government policy for a few months now. Winston’s win in Northland really giving the other side of the house a collective confidence boost.

    JK called the election early for a reason.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • John Farrell,

    The Barnum Effect must be wearing off. (Whoops - I was meaning this as a comment on PT Barnum's famous comment - but now I find psychologists use the term for something quite different).

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 486 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    JK called the election early for a reason.

    because Joyce and English both knew the downturn was coming

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19686 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Sacha,

    Yep, and he did too. Made the basis of their campaign on a return to surplus all that more despicable to my mind.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to David Hood,

    With the houses thing only being with one day of the polling period, it can’ that’ve had much effect.

    Twyford’s political MOAB will either go horribly wrong and cause considerable team-kill casualties, or it’ll go horribly right and a lot of shady characters will propel Labour to victory in 2017.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5418 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Sacha,

    because Joyce and English both knew the downturn was coming

    And if Tiwai Point shuts down, Tim Shadbolt will naturally blame the Govt in power, making things more interesting still. In any case we’ll probably have cheaper electricity, and powerco investors will take a bath, making a mockery of the Mixed Ownership Model.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5418 posts Report Reply

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