Polity by Rob Salmond

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Polity: Cold, calculated and cynical

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  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Nick Russell,

    Unless they can explain exactly what more they would do

    Well first up, a responsible government would have called out Australia on it's human rights abuses at the UN.

    And yes I know we're really good mates with Australia but frankly if your mate is beating up it's own then your should be calling them out on it - in public if necessary.

    Second we could have NZ consulate staff on the ground at Christmas island taking names and numbers and making damn sure no NZ citizen is being harmed by a foreign country. Preferably with a press corp as well to make sure everything is kept open and public. And yes if necessary NZ police to care for and protect NZ detainees.

    Third when asked sensible, reasonable questions in parliament our PM could stop referring to our citizens as rapists with no evidence whatsoever. He could desist from name calling and actually behave like an adult with a real job.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Nick Russell,

    Isn't it depressing that we end up debating whether the strategies of either party will fly with the public, instead of talking about actual human rights issues?

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Nick Russell, in reply to Danielle,

    Yes. But that's politics.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 125 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Dylan Reeve,

    The ‘truth’, as spoken by the Prime Minister and soon widely reported by the media, is that the majority of the detainees are violent sex offenders. The PM even has a document to prove it, although he doesn’t think he’ll be able to make it public

    Justice Minister Amy Adams admitted today that the government can't say for sure whether there's even one sex offender on the island.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    Here is what gets under my skin as a sixth generation, part Maori New Zealander.

    A rich, middle aged Pakeha calling a Maori MP "son". An old, rich Pakeha guy condescendingly talking down to a Maori women MP. And a white settler PM and his white settler speaker siding with white settler racists in Australia against their own people.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2213 posts Report Reply

  • Alfie,

    Hey... I've just made my first Official Information Act request via FYI.

    Dear Prime Minister,

    During Question Time today you stated that a number of the New
    Zealand citizens being detained in Australia's Christmas Island
    prison camp were "child molesters, rapists and murderers." As you
    obviously have access to better information than most people, may I
    ask:

    1. How many of the New Zealanders held on Christmas Island have
    been convicted and served prison time for child molestation?

    2. How many of the New Zealanders held on Christmas Island have
    been convicted and served prison time for rape?

    3. How many of the New Zealanders held on Christmas Island have
    been convicted and served prison time for murder.

    I look forward to receiving your response. Thanks in advance.

    The site informs me that the PM is required to reply no later than December 8th, 2015.

    Dunedin • Since May 2014 • 1386 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    A rich, middle aged Pakeha calling a Maori MP “son”.

    Watch his mouth...he nearly said "boy".

    And the look on Carters face.

    And Turei's hand gesture....

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    It's only Key doing what he does at Question Time most weeks. And Carter doing what he does (i.e. doesn't). It's shameful, but it doesn't get noticed in the world outside the chamber.

    The difference is, this time Labour MPs did more than just say "Oh, ref! Not fair!", and then carry on the game. They acted. It's been too long coming, but good on them for finally getting the Key/Carter scam into the headines.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1324 posts Report Reply

  • Tinakori, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    Just a thought, but somehow I don't think trying to paint John Key as a rich white settler is going to fit with either reality and/or strike the wider population of any ethnicity or class background as correct. As a self-described 6th generation NZer you fit the settler part of that profile rather more accurately.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2013 • 118 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    A rich, middle aged Pakeha calling a Maori MP “son”

    Key seems to be channelling his inner ’Steptoe and Son barrow boy’ persona with lashing of Alf Garnett – none of it pleasant!
    I don’t see how it isn’t a breach of protocol to address another Member of Parliament patronisingly as ‘my son’, bully tones if ever I heard them.
    ‘Borrow Boy’ Bill egging him on was no better, along with Carter’s Company Man impression – none of them acquitted themselves anywhere near honourably, today.
    But they could be cementing their legacies…
    Ugly, ugly people – they are the ‘Dark Mutter’ that thwarts true democracy…

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7889 posts Report Reply

  • Ken Sparks, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    He could desist from name calling and actually behave like an adult with a real job.

    I don't think it would ever enter our PM's head to modify his behaviour in the House or anywhere else for that matter.

    Cox’s Creek • Since Apr 2011 • 60 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Meyers, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    "I kind of agree with that stand up guy John Key - we don't want those nasty criminals to come back to NZ"

    This might play better if Key were actually standing up for something. He's rolling over on Kiwis being deported. He's rolling over on poor treatment of kiwis in these concentration camps. And to top it all off, he's got Malcolm Turnbull's back with the UN.

    Unfortunately he's not standing up for kiwis. He might as well be an Australian MP based on his performance this week.

    Wellington • Since May 2014 • 56 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Alfie,

    On 3News tonight Patirck Gower had a document he’d just received from the PMO stating there are 22 murderers etc.

    ETA

    Here you go:

    Figures released later show Australia has 585 Kiwis on its deportation list including 34 child sex offenders, 22 murderers, 16 people conficted of rape and sex offences, 121 people conficted of assault, including grevious bodily harm, 83 people with theft, robbery, breaking and entering offences to their name and 64 people convicted of drug offences.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Trevor Nicholls, in reply to Michael Meyers,

    Unfortunately he's not standing up for kiwis

    Key and Turnbull are Mates.
    NZ and Oz are Mates.
    Nothing is more important than standing up for your Mate.

    Wellington, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • simon g, in reply to Michael Meyers,

    Bart was assessing the response of Key's target audience. Accurately, I suspect.

    When TV3's political editor is uncritically running Key's lines, it's hard for other lines to get through.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1324 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to chris,

    On 3News tonight Patirck Gower had a document he’d just received from the PMO stating there are 22 murderers etc.

    And didn't make it clear that this wasn't only Christmas Island – indeed, seemed to deliberately obscure that important distinction – didn't note the total number (some of whom are likely to have been convicted of no crime at all) and didn't have a word about the 309 people who have not been any of those things.

    Just said "the psychos are coming". It was about as bad as Gallery reporting gets. You can watch it here if you like.

    Meanwhile the Australian Immigration minister Peter Dutton has said there are a total of four sex offenders on Christmas Island – who may or may not be New Zealanders. So that's how cynical Key was today.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to simon g,

    When TV3’s political editor is uncritically running Key’s lines, it’s hard for other lines to get through.

    Not just uncritically, misleadingly. I'm really angry about this.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • lynne walker,

    And to me one of the most important points is that no one should be detained on Christmas Island in such horrible conditions. ITS SO FAR FROM anywhere, there is no way of getting direct consulate support. Australia should not be allowed to treat people like this .. New Zealanders and all others . There will be a multitude of stories how people end up there.
    I understand why Kelvin is so frustrated, he has been there and seen it and talked with people that are there, has connection. I also think that Serco has the contract needs further investigation. I think the United Nations or ????should send a fact finding team there. Because all these supposed ' facts' are blurring what really matters right now.That Centre should be closed down and Australia government needs to be challenged on so many levels.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2011 • 23 posts Report Reply

  • lynne walker, in reply to Russell Brown,

    How useful to call people psychos.. So offensive . All of those people have their own story which we don' know, yet some of our supposed leaders are behaving so badly..........really makes me sad about the lack of care for others and their families, after all a man died there recently and how that is still unknown. The truth needs to be got at.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2011 • 23 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Thanks for that clarification, it did feel a little too slick.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • kw,

    Toby Manhire's Spinoff interview with the mayor of Christmas Island here is interesting...

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2014 • 30 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    TV3 lost it's audience ages ago. The channel is now the mouthpiece of Key sycophants. Gower is irrelevant.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2213 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to lynne walker,

    And to me one of the most important points is that no one should be detained on Christmas Island in such horrible conditions.

    Repurposing Christmas Island was a Tony Abbott initiative that Malcolm Turnbull seems happy to continue. He's also retained Abbott appointee Peter Dutton as Immigration Minister, despite Dutton joking about the plight of Pacific nations facing rising sea levels, and his initially denying that private security operators had spied on Green Senator Sarah Hanson-Young on her visit to Nauru.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • SHG,

    Joe Wylie- Christmas Island Detention Centre was opened by the Labor Govt in late 2008.

    nup • Since Oct 2010 • 77 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Meyers, in reply to simon g,

    Yes, I know that's what Bart was doing but I'm wondering how well being completely ineffective as a leader plays to Key's audience.

    He's got no concessions at all from Turnbull and has to smile while saying how great Australia's policy is. Seems weak and ineffective to me although it hard to look at this through the eyes of a Key supporter.

    Wellington • Since May 2014 • 56 posts Report Reply

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