Polity by Rob Salmond

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Polity: Cold, calculated and cynical

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  • Bart Janssen, in reply to izogi,

    To top it off we’re also talking about just how many New Zealanders on Christmas Island were previously punished for those offences, implying there’s a possibility that the Christmas Island treatment could be somehow acceptable because of it.

    Exactly! these people are being punished TWICE for the crimes that some of them committed.

    We don't do that in a civilized justice system and having a PM suggest it's just fine and dandy to keep punishing them is abhorrent.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    It does seem to me that that line in particular is a breach of the broadcasting standards.

    That in addition to the blatantly deceptive reporting of the numbers is well outside the standards.

    What are we waiting for?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5419 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    What are we waiting for?

    A forced acknowledgement of the error, buried at the end of a bulletin many months from now after everything's moved on!

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • James Littlewood*,

    an annual conference that far outshone expectations

    I know this is a side issue in an otherwise enlightening article, but, really?

    At conference, the Labour Party
    a) came out in support of capital, and
    b) dismantled the one single policy that could have mitigated the impact of asset sales on the poor.

    If that outshines expectations, I'm a dead cat.

    See you at the TPP march, Saturday.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 410 posts Report Reply

  • Myles Thomas, in reply to Hebe,

    "On to it. Look at 2mins28: Kay starts the killer line and English grins because he knows what's coming."

    well spotted, English is pretty disinterested until that point, then grins and hides it by reaching for a glass of water to cover his smirk.

    That Key goes back to the refrain of rapists etc, after not getting it out the first time confirms planning to say it in advance.

    Auckland • Since Apr 2011 • 130 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    This gambit is calculated to turn attention from Key's gutlessness onto traditional left defence of unpopular people's human rights. Tools like Gower are playing their part.

    However, Kelvin Davis is showing how to keep playing the character line. Will his colleagues follow suit or get sucked into the hand-wringing that Nat strategists are hoping for?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19686 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to James Littlewood*,

    an annual conference that far outshone expectations

    really?

    I/S’s takehome message is worth repeating here:

    the [Labour] party is empty at its core. […] They have no values, and no policies that won’t be chucked away after the next poll. And as a result, you can’t trust them to deliver, because what they’re offering will change three times over before the next election. […] I’m not saying that parties should have their policies fixed in stone and unchanging. But they need to have something at their core, something they can point to to justify changes, something to stand for .

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1889 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Sacha,

    However, Kelvin Davis is showing how to keep playing the character line. Will his colleagues follow suit or get sucked into the hand-wringing that Nat strategists are hoping for?

    The least they can do is ask: will the real John Key please stand up?

    Then: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/286714/key-to-ask-australian-pm-to-release-nzers

    Now: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/289358/pm-stands-by-'rapists'-comments

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5419 posts Report Reply

  • Katita, in reply to Russell Brown,

    +1 - Had me shouting at the TV again last night.
    The whole TV3 'report' was complete regurgitation of the dead cat. Paddy Gower presented opinion not facts and the sound-bites hammered home again and again ‘rapists and murderers’. No attempt for any balance and no indication about what the real story behind this debacle is.
    As a Kiwi who has lived and worked in Australia on and off for years and paid god knows how much tax there, let’s be clear New Zealanders are discriminated against. This is not something that gives Australia any pause for thought. This is the same country that thought it was okay to legislate the Northern Territory National Emergency Response (NTER) NTER legislation and have it exempted from the Racial Discrimination Act.
    Australia’s human rights abuses are many, detention centres are just one. There was a comment of John Key

    He might as well be an Australian MP based on his performance this week.

    Australia loves John Key, he and Malcolm Turnball are cut very much from the same cloth. John Key is supporting his mates and the New Zealand citizens he has been elected to represent suffer.
    Sickening and shameful.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 65 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Green, in reply to izogi,

    A forced acknowledgement of the error, buried at the end of a bulletin many months from now after everything's moved on!

    If only! It's the BSA, they're more likely to say the errors "weren't material" and decline to uphold the complaint.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2011 • 21 posts Report Reply

  • Kavin King,

    Key treats the concept of child molesters and murderers rather less seriously exactly a year ago, according to TV3:
    'John Key laughed about the escape of Phillip Smith, telling reporters he’d let Chile’s President know “there’s someone that could be out there from NZ she might not want to invite around for lunch”. Meanwhile, authorities have announced Smith has crossed the Chilean border into Brazil.'

    Auckland • Since Sep 2014 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Smythe,

    The 'dead cat' has at least contributed to the feeling that we cane do better than this - it's time for a change! Coming immediately after Andrew Little demonstrated Prim Ministerial values, vision and focus in could represent the turning point.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2013 • 3 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    Helen Clark played a similar line to what turned out to be a largely imaginary middle NZ at the time of the Urewera raids. It’s early days yet.

    You could have knocked me down with a feather! Didn't she preside over the enhancement of human rights?:

    While recognising important areas of difference between New Zealand and China on human rights, it does not follow that ending economic relationships or political dialogue with China is the best way to promote human rights there. Nor does New Zealand have the luxury of trading only with countries with similar political and social values as ours. Were we to do so, there would be a great many countries with which we would be excluding an economic and trading relationship. That would hurt New Zealand without advantaging those whose human rights we want to enhance.

    Across the board:

    The detainees were placed in the middle of one of the compounds while the SAS troopers stood guard and waited for sunrise, when the US transport helicopters were due to return. One trooper says he fed some of the Afghans chocolate.

    The SAS did not take the detainees’ names. Instead, each detainee had a numbered prisoner-of-war card affixed to him, along with a bag with a corresponding number that contained documents or other items of interest, such as a mobile phone.

    When the helicopters arrived, the detainees were marched to the landing zone and put on board. At Kandahar airbase the Afghans, still handcuffed and blindfolded, were handed to American soldiers for transfer to the nearby US detention centre. “And that,” said one SAS trooper, “is the last we saw of them.”

    One detainee, 50-year-old Mohammad Wali, says it was terrifying not being able to see. “When they took us off the helicopter, the guard dogs were barking at us and sniffing and touching us.”

    Abdul Wahid, 30, says the Americans forced him to sit with his legs bound and his hands tied very tightly to a piece of wood. It was so painful he passed out. “Later they took us to another room and they tore off all our clothes. Then they took us to an area where some Americans were sitting and they made us walk in front of them naked,” he says.

    Surely things were different at home:

    Prime Minister Helen Clark admitted yesterday that she could not back up a statement issued by her office, linking asylum seeker Ahmed Zaoui’s former political party with al Qaeda.

    At least there’s a positive in that the good folk of New Zealand might get a BSA complaint upheld.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to chris,

    You could have knocked me down with a feather! Didn't she preside over the enhancement of human rights?

    Perhaps St Helen was a little rattled over reports that a bunch of natives had been plotting to catapult cows at her and Dubya. A bit like Key taking it badly over being shirtfronted for being "gutless".

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Jason Kemp,

    Dita deBoni has nailed it (in case you missed her piece)
    That's right, Mr Key, pathetic lefties won’t keep us safe from rapists

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 364 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Jason Kemp,

    No, he won’t twist Turnbull’s arm or anything, and as soon as Malcolm moves the subject on to something like rugby he may even let out a big sigh of relief.

    Where's that arm twisting PM we've been promised for so long.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Seriatim, in reply to linger,

    Labour has an "empty core"? All Little's speech did was remind everyone how rich Labour's core is; a timely and passionate reminder that ensuring this core (education, health, decent jobs and housing for all), stays strong, must be the priority and the rock on which all policies are built. Anyone who sees emptiness, no values and nothing to "stand for" is completely beyond help.

    Wellington • Since Dec 2010 • 57 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Proffit,

    I must admit I was shocked to find out about the changes in the Character Test which occurred in December 2014 and even though I live in Australia and follow politics closely I had not heard much about this change except for the odd piece on the ABC

    The changes were large and meant that the character test changed to automatic cancellation of a visa and the length of time reduced to 12 months (previously 2 years). Plus reading the legislation concurrent sentences are counted separately. So two sentences of 6 months each served concurrently and you are out.


    This is a good summary of the changes

    This is impacting a large number of people who have lived in Australia most of their life and is already the subject of negative reports by the Australian Human Rights Commission.

    Sydney, Australia • Since Sep 2008 • 4 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Seriatim,

    housing for all

    *Excludes those with Chinese names.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Seriatim, in reply to chris,

    Oh Chris, that's a tiny bit pathetic! I suspect Little was implying ONE decent house each to LIVE in, before bothering about anyone (of any kind of surname) acquiring further houses for profit!

    Wellington • Since Dec 2010 • 57 posts Report Reply

  • Stamper Stamp, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Russell - You should consider why Carter called her to order:
    Her "question" began with a long series of statements, all beginning with the phrase "Given that....."
    After about half a dozen of those, Carter brought her to order, asking her to get to the question. I.e. it is not to be a speech followed by a question.

    He regularly pulls up members of the Opposition for this type of "question via a speech" technique. Nothing new here regarding his ruling.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2014 • 27 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Withers, in reply to bob daktari,

    I’m sorry to say it, but this government is beginning to feel “Harper-esque”. But the thing that confounds me is the possibility that maybe 47% of Kiwis are just as unethical and arrogant as Key and his party. Really? I hope not. But every new day presents them with a new opportunity to say something like “You know….these guys aren’t really doing this country much, if any good.”

    That doesn’t appear to be happening. Though perhaps it can be explained by the Carson Effect: the media are so discredited in the eyes of many (for very good reasons) that when they DO accidentally let a slice of reality though the filters people just don’t take it in. It’s the same thing that keeps the Republicans in play in the US despite most of them now being barking mad. Their voters either don’t pay any attention to the “mainstream media” (again, for good reasons) or in desperation they turned to the likes of Alex Jones or some church somewhere……whatever….they have been drinking the same Kool-Aid. The pyramids were built by Joseph to store grain...right? WTF?

    I know people like this first-hand. Perfectly nice people until you start talking politics….and then suddenly they are moaning zombies uttering flagrant untruths and misinformation they have absorbed from somewhere……but where? I’m not seeing the source. It’s like mushrooms. You wake up one morning and there they are. How?

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 312 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Reading what has been going on in parliament today is upsetting. Disgraceful.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19686 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Steve Withers,

    They have been fed manure for many years.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19686 posts Report Reply

  • bob daktari, in reply to Steve Withers,

    and then suddenly they are moaning zombies uttering flagrant untruths and misinformation they have absorbed from somewhere……but where? I’m not seeing the source.

    my experiences with this sort of response is akin to hearing stuff or the heralds headlines (but never the article) being recited back to you verbatim

    or simply put- most people simply don't give a shit cause they prefer to judge not learn and exercise empathy

    auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 538 posts Report Reply

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