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Speaker: Towards a realistic drug policy

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  • Islander,

    Rich of O - think respectable certificates and degrees in both practical and more academically-inclined courses.

    Pkus: it doesnt publish weirdo books.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    I'm sure CPIT is a fine institution. It's just that the word Polytechnic *means* an institute for the study of technology. So why "Polytechnic Institute of Technology"?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Keir, that really just sounds snobish & I don't see it as valid except for size, but no Uni is openly talking of moving into the City (3kms east) in any numbers.

    I think the convergence of threads shows how important environment is in social policy.

    Who would have guessed codine was an "opium-linked drug".
    Dropping the packet from 8-5days supply is hardley a headline though. No more nanny state?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10621154

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia,

    It's a headline for me. I may as well be swallowing jellybeans as take panadol without the "deine". Once more, the abuse by a small number limits the access for the majority.

    My father used to swallow handfuls of 'AP Codeine' in the 50s for headaches. It's been available for yonks - why clamp down now?

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • Amy Gale,

    Who would have guessed codine was an "opium-linked drug".

    'Guessed'? It's knowledge, bro.

    I guess it's not a big deal if you never use it anyway, but please, everyone, pay attention to what's in pills that you take! Otherwise, how can you answer accurately if your doctor asks if you take any opiates? Or respond appropriately if you're a Pirophen fan and your sister rings to tell you she had a terrible reaction to Panadeine?

    [Oh, Pirophen, how I miss you.]

    tha Ith • Since May 2007 • 471 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    It's a headline for me. I may as well be swallowing jellybeans as take panadol without the "deine". Once more, the abuse by a small number limits the access for the majority.

    To be fair, the appearance at ED of middle-aged women with gastric bleeding because they've got addicted to the codeine in Nurofen plus is pretty alarming.

    OTOH, Nurofen Plus really works for me. Like you I kind of despair at how hard it is to get proper painkillers for proper pain. Panadol doesn't do anything for me either.

    My father used to swallow handfuls of 'AP Codeine' in the 50s for headaches. It's been available for yonks - why clamp down now?

    Oddly enough, I suspect the biggest problem is the overdose of the accompanying ingredients. Too much paracetamol is extremely bad, as is too much ibuprofen. Codeine? Not so much. It's just addictive.

    @Amy

    [Oh, Pirophen, how I miss you.]

    Codeine, paracetamol and aspirin?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22817 posts Report Reply

  • Amy Gale,

    No OTC codeine in the land of the free...

    tha Ith • Since May 2007 • 471 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia,

    Pirophen was my first port of call for migraines in my younger days - think it had all three. Codcomol too.

    I have to be careful of the non-steroid anti-inflammatories so I avoid Nurophen Plus.

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 559 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Codeine, paracetamol and aspirin?

    To reduce ability to get these will just move Pharmacies back into the category of "places to rob" much like they were way back in the day, for those that require them for baking. Aspirin restriction, is particularly harsh for many using that drug as a means to thin blood, prevent heart attacks, strokes, blood clots, as well as helping pain, reducing fever, and then the anti-inflammatory benefits.
    So maybe this commitee for solving all NZ drug problems at once when "P" was the origin of it's set up, might save us all?
    Yeah righto.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings,

    Perhaps I'm just more comfortable with the K Road flavour of muntedness: those are my wasted loons.

    I know that in my days of wandering CHCH by night it was fairly probable that any munters I met would be my munters

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 719 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen McIntyre,

    I'm curious about the claim in the Herald about codeine-based painkillers being used as the primary ingredient in 'homebake'. Now, I'm sure that's probably true but I haven't even heard the term 'homebake' in about 25 years. Does anyone really still do it, or is this a case of a problem being manufactured to justify more laws that make it seem like the Govt is 'really cracking down on the drug problem'?

    Auckland • Since Jan 2010 • 37 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    You can still find bloody needles discarded around Manchester st, but I don't know what was in them.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Does anyone really still do it, or is this a case of a problem being manufactured to justify more laws that make it seem like the Govt is 'really cracking down on the drug problem'?

    Well I know that some still do, and lets face it we are talking a substitute for lord Opium, but certainly "P" is an alternative (surprisingly), but I do suspect many Homebake, Morphine, users have found their way onto the methadone programme and have moved on or with maintenance, can indulge as a recreation rather than dependence.

    You can still find bloody needles discarded around Manchester st, but I don't know what was in them.

    Needles are a means to many drugs, not just homebake and to know what was in them would be pretty diligent. I would suggest a replacement incentive could solve needles in unwanted places, like bring in your old needles to the exchange for a discount on your new ones, or trade old for new or somesuch.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Keir, that really just sounds snobish & I don't see it as valid except for size, but no Uni is openly talking of moving into the City (3kms east) in any numbers.

    I don't think it is snobbery. CPIT has 30,000 enrolled students a year. It has 6,000 EFTS. Roughly speaking, most CPIT students are part time and living in Christchurch already. Most students at the uni are full time, and a large proportion come from out of town. Quite a lot of students live near the university*, and quite a lot stay near the university after graduating. That's not really true of CPIT.

    And that's not a bad thing about CPIT. CPIT is doing something different from the university, and that's good, and it's something that should be supported. But it isn't a university.

    It is true that Canterbury doesn't look like moving any time soon. But, on the other hand, the buildings out at Ilam are getting old, and over the next ten-twenty years there's no reason* you couldn't move parts of the uni back into town.

    * Aside from the general problems of having a split campus.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Nothing to see here. :)As you were.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • nz native,

    This thread has wandered somewhat ..........

    Early on there was the slightly insane comment that all nz mass murderers used cannabis. How about the name Stanley Graeham for a bit of reality.

    Its batty fear mongering by those who don't have a clue which is responsible for such daft beliefs about cannabis and some other drugs .

    Other thread contributors did not think much of the guest speakers intertwining of alcohol into his legalize/regulate cannabis argument.

    This country has a booze culture which results in a hell of a lot of drinkers not recognizing that when they " have a drink ", or whatever euphemism is used that they are taking drugs ....

    That a pub is really just a drug den.

    People who should know better refer to " Alcohol AND drugs" when talking about the two, ........... artificial separation anyone ? http://www.onmedica.com/news/36bd010e-aef5-4eb4-8fc8-3736c3da0d1d/alcohol-and-cigarettes-more-dangerous-than-some-illegal-drugs

    "Alcohol is a highly intoxicating drug which is fairly easy to overdose on" ...... http://www.alcoholaction.co.nz/Background.aspx


    And then we have a govt which tells us it is " tough on drugs " ...... so it gives doug myers a knighthood ....

    Drug debate is political and extremely dumbed down ........ It was probably druggies who burgled me -John Key

    Back to the booze.



    I know a few alcoholics, some of them are totally fucked and a couple are 'dry' .

    The two dry alcoholics I know both enjoy cannabis. It is not a replacement for booze because it cant take them to oblivion.

    But these two enjoy/want a relaxing recreational drug and cannabis serves them well without the addiction, the mess or the violence.

    And as the last couple of pages of this thread seem to be about city centers and crime ............. alcohol psychosis mainly plus some predators targeting the drunks.

    Since May 2007 • 60 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    nz native-
    a)Stanley Graham wasnt noted as a boozer;
    b)alcoholic pyschosis is quite rare (it is associated with a lack of certain vit B components & generally, cirrhosis carries alcohol devotees into death long before that:)
    c)I dont know of ANY alcoholic here on the West Coast who prefers cannabis - including the dry ones. (And - because I've lived here for 40 years, I know a *lot*-)
    d) - most importantly, I know - as in being part of my life here on the Coast - of TEN people deeply deranged by using cannabis.

    I am NOT saying that all people who use cannabis are going to be adversely affected by it- just your skew on the matter isnt helpful.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    But these two enjoy/want a relaxing recreational drug and cannabis serves them well without the addiction, the mess or the violence.

    So, same, same, but not the same. Other than that, I got the impression from most of the last 11 pages that most understand the hypocrisy of alcohol laws versus other drugs, and I certainly see the hypocrisy of Myers Knighthood, but after that, you left me at the bus-stop.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen McIntyre,

    b)alcoholic pyschosis is quite rare

    "Not surprisingly, alcohol dependence was predictive of psychotic experience in a general adult population survey in Great Britain. The reported two-fold higher risk was independent of other risk factors for psychotic symptoms including drug dependence, suggesting that alcohol dependence per se doubles the risk of psychotic symptoms."

    www.medscape.com/viewarticle/528487_2

    Auckland • Since Jan 2010 • 37 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    O dear, that was a kind of biased sample, wasnt it?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Can you give one
    apropos
    A) ANZ?
    B) West Coast?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    ) - most importantly, I know - as in being part of my life here on the Coast - of TEN people deeply deranged by using cannabis.

    And yet medically it seems to offer so much as a natural painkiller.I just want it studied, graded and put in a puffer if it's found to be of benefit to the body or mind,especially the ageing one......because half of us are going to live to 100.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    NZ Native, I linked my studies on mental health,and various cancers, something Stephen McIntrye didn't do.

    Stephen also wrote the claim dope made you a "cautious driver" & "was not associated with lung-related cancers, even among heavy users ", Russell massaged that as they "didn't find a strong association", followed by, "there's no consensus", we are taking about the link between smoking and cancer.

    There have been overwhelming references to credible cited studies linking to mental health & cancer, my assertion was robustly questioned but not disproved.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Russell massaged that as they "didn't find a strong association", followed by, "there's no consensus", we are taking about the link between smoking and cancer.

    Grrrrr. I know that you're terribly certain about everything, but I "massaged" nothing. I pointed out that there is some conflicting evidence about the lung cancer risks of cannabis smoking.

    The study Stephen quoted was robust; so was the one you quoted. They said different things. What could that possibly say to any sensible person but that the research isn't conclusive?

    And, indeed, that is pretty much what the summary from The Lancet, posted in this discussion by Ross Bell of the New Zealand Drug Foundation, says:

    Larger cohort and better designed case–control studies are needed to clarify whether any such risks from chronic cannabis smoking exist.

    No, your "assertion" wasn't "disproved". That's sort of the point.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22817 posts Report Reply

  • nz native,

    Islander .................... I was saying Stanley Graham did not use cannabis as an example to show the batty belief 'that all nz mass murder's used cannabis is emotive false bullshit.

    Alcohol psychosis was extremely common in the house I was growing up in and seems to be relatively common amongst drunks from what I've seen ............. perhaps you and I have a different interpretation of the word psychotic .........

    As I stated I have two dry alcoholic friends who enjoy cannabis. It does not and can not take them to that unconscious piss all over yourself state that alkies seem to want ( oblivion ), but my two friends enjoy cannabis and have been dry for a while now.......... accept it.

    And Wow Islander .......... I've been smoking cannabis all of my life and dont know anyone driven insane by it ...........


    But you know 10 people who cannabis 'deranged'.

    Thats Incredible. Do they have a doctors note stating cannabis made them so ?

    Just thinking ............. when they start arresting the bakery owners who sell cream doughnuts to obese people I'll believe that cannabis prohibition is about protecting health.

    Otherwise its just more bullshit.

    Since May 2007 • 60 posts Report Reply

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