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Speaker: Towards a realistic drug policy

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  • Just thinking,

    Duties of a good host.
    My Great Grand Parents were teetotal but by Dads account had the best selection of top-shelf you could wish for, just because they didn't, didn't mean you couldn't.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    instant coffee....My duty as a good host

    There may be a few members of the Cult of Brown who'll have a word or two to say about that.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Graham Reid,

    Apropos of this discussion, some of you may like to see what i wrote for the Herald a decade ago when decriminalisation was the issue.
    I've posted it at www.elsewhere.co.nz/culturalelsewhere.
    There are some oddball internal links too -- and the music track I've posted is kinda cool.

    auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 45 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen McIntyre,

    some of you may like to see what i wrote for the Herald a decade ago when decriminalisation was the issue.

    Did they run it?

    Auckland • Since Jan 2010 • 37 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I wouldn't think of not walking a street crrying an open bottle of alcohol. how much influence does a further 330mls of 4.7% beer being consumed en route to a bar really have on my otherwise intoxicated/non intoxicated state. I don't see that drink being here nor there. If i were going to bottle someone I could do more damage with an unopened bottle. Those police should have been stopping drunk drivers.

    You're a bit at cross-purposes with yourself here, Chris. The council liquor bans in the Auckland CBD have improved the atmosphere of the streets, in part because they're reliably enforced. If it were simply the kind of back-pocket law you want for cannabis, we'd be back to to the cops playing favourites. Which is pretty much what happens with marijuana now.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22763 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    But what has been lost is your ability (right) to have a picnic on your soon to be beautiful waterfront, unless you pay for the pleasure.
    What needs to be policed, in and outside of licensed areas is the level of intoxication and the anti-social behaviour.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    What has been gained is peace of mind. The Police could spend a lot of time arresting drunks for anti-social behaviour, but it is a lot better to have fewer drunks on the streets.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    There may be a few members of the Cult of Brown who'll have a word or two to say about that.

    Some people insist on instant. I've got whiskey and Karajoz in there too, if it ever comes to that, and the instant will be hidden, just like dak is hidden when ubersquares are there.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10646 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    You're a bit at cross-purposes with yourself here, Chris.

    Yes, I know. not so black and white. I have no doubt that Auckland streets have an improved atmosphere as a result of the law. "improved atmosphere' is exactly what I imagine they were going for when they introduced the legislation, and that's what I would have liked to experience.

    A friendly wind down the window and "Hey guys, there's a liquor ban here, can you tip your bottle out"

    As opposed to a mini confrontation on an empty street outlined previously.

    If it were simply the kind of back-pocket law you want for cannabis

    As I see it Russell, It's not so much what I want that matters, as opposed to what our country has to offer, it's simply that as a tourist, bringing tourist dollars, I don't want to be threatened with arrest, for a law that is not signposted, if the police must kill the vibe in order to administer a law to improve the atmosphere...then...there's nothing I can really do about it. Of course I will not hesitate to recommend that friends visiting New Zealand avoid Chch at all costs. We're talking about little more than a few grands. But the question is left teetering on the dance floor, What exactly were they going for?

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Chris, what do you mean avoid Christchurch?
    Just be aware of the alcohol policing, which is signposted. Christchurch is much safer than any other city in NZ, still walk in groups at nights [edit] & always has been.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    2,000,000+ tourists a year come to New Zealand (many of whom come from places without these kinds of laws). New Zealand is arresting people for carrying a bottle of shandy as opposed to fining people for speeding? Or even just personally threatening tourists from developing and undeveloped countries where the concept of arrest can be pretty fucking serious.

    Welcome to New Zealand, empty your bottle or we'll arrest you.

    World Cup Rugby? Manpower/room in the cells?
    fines no?=income not important?
    signs-didn't see them.
    Basically, Towards a realistic drug policy

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Christchurch is much safer than any other city in NZ, still walk in groups at nights [edit] & always has been.

    Not quite true, according to the police statistics. Canterbury district had 442 grievous assaults in the year to June -- vs 387 for Auckland district off. Its overall rate for violent offences is slightly less than Auckland's -- until you compare the two central city areas.

    Central Auckland City logged violent 1,446 offences -- and Central Christchurch saw 1,713. Violent crime fell 5% in central Auckland and rose 13.4% in Christchurch Central.

    I'm with the ladies. I feel much safer in the CBDs of Auckland or Wellington than I do in Christchurch on a Friday night.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22763 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Welcome to New Zealand, empty your bottle or we'll arrest you.

    Ever been to Paris?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22763 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    I'm with the ladies. I feel much safer in the CBDs of Auckland or Wellington than I do in Christchurch on a Friday night.

    Same.

    Ever been to Paris?

    Sure, a few times.

    If you're unlucky and policemen in a bad mood, they can ask you 11 to 38 euros of penalty

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081009055637AA5JFt4

    I do think a fine is more fitting than arrest for this offence.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    You were breaking the law, you got caught. Get over it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    and not 5km a gang house was breaking the law too. Not the issue.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Hey, we halved our homocide rate! You're killing me with statistics, I'll be on it tomorrow :)

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    The issues are,

    1. are confrontations and idle threats a successful means of improving the atmos? Based on the flurry of words I heard after the police drove off, no.

    2. Is the law being adhered to? The individual breaking the law being a New Zealand resident, so also no.

    3. Why would the New Zealander not be respecting authority? See 1.

    The bin skull tasted bitter, despite the original contents being a lager.

    (sorry about the reemergence of the pseudonym Mr Taslov, I thought he was dead and buried but this PC had other ideas.)

    But anyway, just a suggestion, WRC on the horizon, and not quite enough space in the cells IMO, but fines could go a ways towards building more prisons.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Just so we know what we're on about, the Auckland CBD 24-hour liquor ban boundaries are here.

    It appears you can actually have a beer with with your fish and chips at one part of the waterfront, and Victoria Park is under a the same 10pm to 8am liquor ban as most other parks and reserves.

    I was agin the daytime liquor ban in Albert Park, when the CBD ban boundaries were announced, and remain of that view, but in general the 24-hour street ban has been a good thing.

    It' worth noting that it's only an offence to "knowingly" breach the ban, and the police are expected to advise people of the law and invite them to tip out their drink. Anything more is cops being dicks. It's not an offence to simply be taking your booze somewhere else to drink it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22763 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Hey, we halved our homocide rate! You're killing me with statistics, I'll be on it tomorrow :)

    Fair call. Wellington, that's where they do the murderin', from memory.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22763 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    It' worth noting that it's only an offence to "knowingly" breach the ban, and the police are expected to advise people of the law and invite them to tip out their drink. Anything more is cops being dicks. It's not an offence to simply be taking your booze somewhere else to drink it.

    That's a fair swag Russell, but it's largely urban and in my opinion entirely reasonable. Also. and it shames me to say it but generally speaking, from experience, the Auckland police seem to be just that little less into the power trip than their Chch counterparts. More real work to do I guess.

    Part of the Chch ban is within the 4 aves, So if you're coming south from one of the northern corners on foot, that's a fair way to hike before even coming within spitting distance of an on license. A good 15 minute walk without a drink, whilst encouraging people not to drink and drive. That's a lot of suburban streets to police for a pretty benign arrestable offense. I'm trying to look through the fine print of the bylaws now to see if the journey (with open vessels) could be legally made boating down the Avon, but suffering PDF issues.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    Chris I could draw you a Pub Crawl if you give me A & Z. But half of PAS could do the same.
    Although I known a few who have, I've never been done for lack of a cycle helmet.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1158 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    A good 15 minute walk without a drink, whilst encouraging people not to drink and drive.

    Really? I just never think about walking along the street drinking.

    I'm trying to look through the fine print of the bylaws now to see if the journey (with open vessels) could be legally made boating down the Avon, but suffering PDF issues.

    I can only applaud your sense of enterprise, sir.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22763 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    Thanks Russell.

    Really? I just never think about walking along the street drinking.

    maybe I'm a hooligan. old habit.

    Chris I could draw you a Pub Crawl

    Or perhaps we could just do one, on intravenous tequila

    I've never been done for lack of a cycle helmet.

    Same, just ze warning!

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    Chris, I think you have a problem.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

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