Speaker: What goes on tour
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So... I thought I had this sussed - are there two women or not?
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There ARE two women involved. Your (and others) confusion shows what a good job someone has done in spinnning this.
If 'Angel' was the presumed victim I'm sure the Police would have dropped this case the minute she came out with her Tabloid Tale.
There may well be other possibilities that hadn't occured to me?
Another possibility is that the UK press are deliberately confusing the two ...
Oh yeah, and BTW </prediction> "this file remains open but no further action will be taken at this time unless new facts emerge" ~ Police
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And now it seems the two women are both "lapdancers/models" and both possibly did something with the same guy?
YEah, no wonder I'm confused.
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There are AT LEAST two women....
According to different unreliable sources.....
1) a woman, who has spoken to police, may have been raped in an incident involving up to four players.
2) a different woman had consenting sex with a player that may or may not have been one of the four
3) consenting woman was told by her player that five other players "scored" that night....
That could leave an extra unaccounted for player and partner... who, assuming consenting, we havent heard about.... and nor should we need to. -
But that doesn't mean we can't critique the media representation of the case.
Of course you can, but I got the impression you know the Sun is this way, and I think there is lotsa papers that use selective phrases to enhance their stories, I didn't expect anything else from any of them.
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Pretty sure the Sun didn't use any '...' around model but went back to see & found this gem.
"New Zealand team boss Darren Shand revealed All Blacks players were warned to avoid what is known here as the Traperazzi before stories of the England scandal broke.
Tales are rife of sports stars who have been lured into compromising situations.
Shand admitted: “The more high-profile the players, the more you need to keep reminding them of the dangers. We do that on a weekly basis.” "
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/rugby_union/article1325617.ece
They're just making sh!t up.
Sure guys are warned, Tana didn't do himself any favours in Christchurch but don't be an abusive drunk & you'll be fine.
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This is all so depressing, to be honest. I got so mad when One News referred to it as a "sex romp" last night. And I'm pretty sure I heard wrong, but there appeared to be an interview with someone from the English rugby team management on Nat Rad yesterday and he used the phrase (this is the bit I hope I misheard) "honey traps."
When someone is killed and the crime is reported there is no belittling language used. When someone is violently assaulted the same holds true, UNLESS it is rape. Why oh why is sexual assault reported so differently? (Only partly rhetorical). Perhaps if a news source is unsure what language to use they could use the actual language in the Crimes Act, ie "sexual violation", in the same way that they would for a non-sexual assault.
Darren Shand should be ashamed. Perhaps we need to get him and the ALAC advertising team, and all the journalists we can, into a room with Rape Crisis educators. Trapperazi warnings? How about telling international rugby players that we take rape seriously in this country, and that they are not above the law?
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Sure guys are warned, Tana didn't do himself any favours in Christchurch but don't be an abusive drunk & you'll be fine.
several years back, wasn't there some attempt to whip up a scandal about some hurricanes (?) or all blacks (the group allegedly included Tana anyway) & the mistreatment of a call girl at a party?
Only thing I can remember about it (came to nothing) was a lovely letter to the DomPost (among the missives outraged at sport stars behavour) expressing sadness that we'd come to such a low point that All Blacks might have to pay for sex.
It was funnier than I've recounted here.
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Shep... I'm going to have to withdraw my accusations of quote marks around the word model...
I've just been back through my browsers history and couldnt find them... I'd have guessed I saw them at the News Of The World's story that was reputedly a paid interview... but they just weren't there...
Maybe I just imagined them?
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No, I'm sure you didn't hear wrong, Julie. The term 'honey traps" has been used a bit when discussing the alleged rape/sexual assault on some rugby forums. It's a term borrowed from spy thrillers I think.
Even worse on those forums is the use of the term, 'roasting' and 'spit roasting', as in: "The s**g who was spit roasted". I've obviously led a sheltered life. I had to google the term to find out what it means. It could be applied to a male as much as a female, I think, but it sounds demeaning and objectifying IMO.
FletcherB, there was at least one other woman referred to. According to that reliable source "Angel Barbie", as reported in equally reliable "news"papers, one of the England team "scored" with a 46 year old woman. Her occupation wasn't stated. Her sole identifying feature is her age.
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Julie and Caroline,
I've thought about whether I should reply to your comments as there's not really anything I disagree with - these are demeaning terms, I agree, and the overall portrayal of this situation has reflected a not-so-latent sexism.
It's is true, however, that in some countries, England particularly, the media have actively encouraged, if not commissioned, people to try to capture celebs in compromising positions: Shane Warne being one of the most recent and high-profile (and one I have absolutely no sympathy for - he's a complete a**e).
Shand may be guilty of being sexist, but I suspect he's talking more broadly about the way All Blacks are treated. I know of a number of All Blacks who've endured sustained and well planned baiting by blokes looking for a fight so I suspect Shand's talking about a broader range of situations than commenting on this situation.
I do think some advice should be provided to the All Blacks about how they should behave in public. I think that advice should start with telling them to avoid going out and getting pissed and, at a minimum, insisting that they obey the law and treat people with respect.
I seriously doubt that the English players were set up - I think this is a predictable and tacky diversion. We'll never know the facts, but my sense is that these players did abuse this young woman and I'm apalled they might get away with it.
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. I got so mad when One News referred to it as a "sex romp" last night.
And this would be why I've just given up on the TV news. It's just a glossy colour version of what I heard on National Radio at 7am, only with less content and more ew factor.
It was funnier than I've recounted here.
Sounds pretty funny as is, really. A sad state, indeed. *g*
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Trapperazi warnings? How about telling international rugby players that we take rape seriously in this country, and that they are not above the law?
The latter may be true, but Trapperazzi isn't as ridiculous as you (and some others) obviously think. The UK News of the World are notorious for all sorts of shady, manufactured stories; one of their signature pieces for a while was to find someone notable drinking, and have a couple of women wander over to him, wait for a photographer to get into position, get their tits out, and presto! Instant "x caught in sleeze" story.
And that's hardly the worst of the things alleged about them. They're a rich source of nastiness.
The irony there, of course, is that the English press are the worst shitbags, while the RFU are whining about New Zealand being hostile.
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while the RFU are whining about New Zealand being hostile.
I blame the Haka :-) And perhaps the English press believe they were hoist by their own petard.
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Last night this topic came up at pre-pub-quiz dinner. One person was surprised to learn that the alleged rape victim and "Angel" were two different people. He thought it was a bit strange that this woman would claim rape and sell her sex story to the tabs.
I had the same conversation over coffee at work yesterday. It's a pretty common thing.
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I had the same conversation over coffee at work yesterday. It's a pretty common thing.
Way too common. It really is unacceptable that the way the media has reported this conflates the two women in most people's minds. I would say that it is just lazy reporting but I think it is just deliberate sensationalism
or worse.
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It's is true, however, that in some countries, England particularly, the media have actively encouraged, if not commissioned, people to try to capture celebs in compromising positions: Shane Warne being one of the most recent and high-profile ...
by a Kiwi lass no less:
WARNE'S MAIDEN
She's the Kiwi 'sexport' who captured Shane Warne in a compromising position and sold the pictures to the British tabloids. 20/20 reporter Hadyn Jones spoke exclusively with Coralie Robinson, who is making a career out of sex with celebrities.She even has her own website (naturally)
Maybe that's why the British Press don't trust our womenfolk? (Plonkers)
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One of the things that bugs me about media reporting around rape is the much much higher reporting of false allegations, as opposed to coverage of genuine ones. I have absolutely no stats to support this, but I suspect that a very high percentage of false allegations get media coverage. And we know that a very low percentage of genuine complaints get coverage, and further that those genuine complaints significantly under represent the actual number of rapes and sexual assaults, as so few people (women and men) report the violation to the police.
I accept that there are probably a tiny, infinitesimal, number of women who do act in a trapperazi manner. But the way it is reported gives the impression that a large number of XXers are all trying to trap a man, All Black, English rugby player, whatever, with our sexual wiles. I humbly submit that the number of women who do this is significantly smaller than the number of men who rape. Yet the reportage suggests vice versa.
And I'd also point out that just because you might set out to get a shot of your boobs with a famous person, for a payout, does not mean you can't be raped.
To finish up with a bit of shameless blog-promotion, here are a couple of new posts on The Hand Mirror about this, which may or may not be of interest to readers:
And somehow I find myself defending rugby players by Anna McM
and
"Hijinks"?! a guest post by another Anna, specifically looking at the language used by the media. -
And I'd also point out that just because you might set out to get a shot of your boobs with a famous person, for a payout, does not mean you can't be raped.
Agreed.
I only meant to note that Shand's advice was probably as much about about the risk of being baited into a fight as it might have been about anything else.
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One of the things that bugs me about media reporting around rape is the much much higher reporting of false allegations, as opposed to coverage of genuine ones.
Jonathon Coleman discussed this issue with a woman from Rape Crisis yesterday on the Radio Live News at Noon Hour show; in relation to the Police in Hamilton yesterday charging a woman with wasting their time (for laying a false rape complaint).
Coleman's angle was 'doesn't it make it harder for genuine complainants to be taken seriously when women make false allegations?' but the woman (from Rape Crisis) was having none of that and launched straight into how hard it is already for women to be taken seriously when alleging rape.
She said that Police themselves have said they think 60-80% of rape complaints are false, and if they're coming from that mindset then it's hard already for women to be taken seriously.
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One of the things that bugs me about media reporting around rape is the much much higher reporting of false allegations, as opposed to coverage of genuine ones.
Because it's an exceptional event. I could complain about child-molesting stories not noting that most people aren't child molesters, too, but it's pointless for much the same reason.
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She said that Police themselves have said they think 60-80% of rape complaints are false, and if they're coming from that mindset then it's hard already for women to be taken seriously.
Urgh, that is the most depressing thing I've read in ages. And it's been a depressing week.
I'd also note that if it's hard for a woman who has been raped to be taken seriously, or to report to the police, it must be even harder for those men who are raped. We need to make it easier for anyone to report, imho.
As for false allegations being somehow deserving of more coverage because they are an exceptional event? Also depressing. And it gives the impression that true allegations are the exception, not the other way around. More reporting of true rape allegations would probably be bloody difficult to take for those who have been victims of sexual assault (particularly if the media focused on the prurient details, as has happened a few times recently). So what's the answer here? I don't know.
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She said that Police themselves have said they think 60-80% of rape complaints are false
If she's got that correct that's very concerning. Do you remember if she said where it came from?
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So what's the answer here? I don't know.
Julie. I don't think it's just rape that is difficult to report. My experience is that it can be anything. Even my stolen car was at central blown up, and it was insinuated that I was doing an insurance job (yeah right,I had no insurance) so what I learnt to do is, if at first you don't agree with the manner of which your complaint is handled, say you want to lodge a complaint to the Police Complaints Authority. This can be done over the phone and you will get a personal visit . I believe if nothing else, you are making the police answerable. Quite satisfying to prove you are just as important and equal to everyone else on this planet.It makes a difference.
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When I worked on the door of a bar, drunk women were very hard to deal with. After kicking one drunk woman out, she said we had to let her in or she'ld get raped leaving by herself. We offered to call a cab or whomever but she eventually left when the cops turned up. She came back 15-20mins later saying she'ld been raped, with an indignant attitude that said (& she might have even said it) "It's your fault - so there!" Then wanted to come in to talk to her friends & of course needed a drink.
This was clearly a total bullshit story.
She got the brush off from the cops.
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