Up Front: Can't We All Just Fucking Get Along?
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If SATC2 is a foolish film, where can I find a good film about women and their lives?
You know, that's a bloody good question.
It really is. I'm stymied. Um. I hear good things about Please Give, by Nicole Holofcener, but haven't seen it myself yet. Please give more examples, somebody, anybody!
This is a discussion thread about awesome women rather than a film, but it had the effect on me that a really good, cheerful film about women and their lives might have. As one commenter put it,
Karen, you are awesome for getting a whole comment thread-ful of ladies to say how awesome they are. This many ladies knowing that they are awesome, and even saying it in front of other people, is the equivalent of dropkicking patriarchy in the face.
(I have to say, it is also awesomely hard to come up with one's own statement of awesomeness, even when prompted, and even among supportive friends... )
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3410,
If SATC2 is a foolish film, where can I find a good film about women and their lives?
You know, that's a bloody good question.
The weird thing is that it's, obviously, such a huge market, yet so poorly served.
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Kind of obvious I suppose, but maybe this; Topless Women Talk About Their Lives. Is that TOFO enough? Was made by a man but, so possibly not.
Excellent title! Odd little film, funny and sweet and also weird, partly as a function of having been shot in 5 min chunks for late night TV.
And I had completely forgotten that I was an extra in the bar fight scene, which involved standing around in a darkened, noisy, smoky bar on a sunny afternoon, for nothing more than the love of it. 90s flashback!
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The weird thing is that it's, obviously, such a huge market, yet so poorly served.
And it is only getting worse. (That's a fairly old article, but I don't see it having improved, much.)
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Shall we talk about how few women directors there have been in the history of Western cinema?
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Shall we talk about how few women directors there have been in the history of Western cinema?
We could, but I would be so far out of my area of expertise that I'll just have to nod and smile. (Which at this point, some people might appreciate.)
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I found Shirley Valentine to be a touching film about a woman's struggle against a number of oppressions.
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3410,
Shall we talk about how few women directors there have been in the history of Western cinema?
Carol Reed? ;)
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The thing is, gender discrimination hurts _everyone_. It's not just a women's fight.
I agree, though the position of ally is a tricky one to pull off. I'd be keen to hear more from Josh and others about some of the relevant academic points about that, but that's just me. I'm enjoying the discussion though it took a long time to catch up.
In the disability movement (or more accurately movement*s*) we face the historic societal expectation that it's OK to speak on behalf of disabled people (because we're obviously not competent to do that ourselves). I'd say the same thing applied to women and children, and other marginalised social groups at various times.
The counter-trend is that disabled people don't actually demand competence of our spokespeople - they only have to know about their own experience of being disabled, not about how that relates to other disabled people's experiences, to history and theory for some context, or to particular subject areas they're advocating in like employment or local government. We also have no proper mandating or representative structures, because no one will invest in making them genuinely accessible so they actually work.
One result is that many of the public voices you hear are our parents or the well-intentioned people whose job it is to provide services to around half of us. As I've said before, it's like tolerating immigration consultants speaking on behalf of migrants. And yet, sometimes you need a good specialist - as an ally.
Finally, because it's media Friday, check the difference in tone between the most recent TV adverts for IHC and CCS (who also claim to represent disabled people not just our mothers, to whom we are such a burden). Making disability about charity rather than proper public services and innovative businesses reinforces those tired traditional expectations about who speaks out and acts to change the world for ourselves and for others.
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Topless Women Talk About Their Lives
and a great local soundtrack, too...
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and a great local soundtrack, too...
On high rotate in our house, even all these years later.
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I found Shirley Valentine to be a touching film about a woman's struggle against a number of oppressions.
Jane Campion's Sweetie fits that particular description for me.
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Topless Women Talk About Their Lives
and a great local soundtrack, too...
On high rotate in our house, even all these years later.Us too! I *loved* that movie when it first came out. I was all 'it's me! and my friends!' I wonder if it still holds up? (And isn't there a scene shot inside the pre-refurb Civic?)
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Re the Bechdel test (and despite what the video says it's not "Mo's movie test", Mo doesn't enter the DTWOF comics until a year or so later):
Surprisingly rarely passed. Firefly - written by someone who talks a lot about advancing feminism and the importance of strong female characters - rarely passes it.
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One result is that many of the public voices you hear are our parents
Can I add that parental love is a strong motivator to act on behalf of our children, and I wouldn't want to see that change. Get more balance by strengthening disabled people's voices.
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I *loved* that movie
Same. Unapologetically local, good script, good actors, tasty soundtrack, locations I recognised...
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Lets talk about art.
People really often make this mistake about what is and isn't art.
They say "that's not art" when what they really mean is "that's bad art".
If you push them they'll say that of course not all art is good and of course bad art exists. But then they will happily go back to trying to reclassify stuff they think is bad as "not really art".
Ditto feminism. -
I can, to some extent, sympathize with people saying something is "bad feminism", or "not feminism at all". If such utterances are impossible then the term feminism has no meaning, and that's not an ideal situation either. For instance, I would say that if you said your idea of feminism was to be completely submissive to men, take a lot of shit from them, clean up after them, do lots of work for them, play punching bag when they're drunk, and thank them for it all, then I'd say you're either not a feminist, or you're a bad one. Moving from such a simple example to more problematic ones involves obviously a lot more justification, but the very idea of condemning a particular view of feminism is not inherently wrong. Each case needs answering.
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Lets talk about art.
Please, let's not. Or copyright.
Think of the children. -
Heh!
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I would say that if you said your idea of feminism was to be completely submissive to men
What about a woman whose kink is that very thing?
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Jane Campion's Sweetie fits that particular description for me.
Agree with that.
Thanks for the retweet Jolisa ;-) That TWTATL soundtrack is great.
Spooky probably my favourite. -
Shall we talk about how few women directors there have been in the history of Western cinema?
Only if you want a reprise of how thoroughly fucked off I get at the sight of women like Kathryn Bigelow, Gale Ann Hurd and Jane Espenson not only having to choke on the entirely predictable sexist bullshit from geek boys ("eww, the bitches are getting their emo lady-juices all over our manly genres), but the noxious woman-splaining of their bad feminist false consciousness...
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I haven't seen hurt locker, but Strange Days was a pretty shining example of feminist cinema I thought.
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Craig! I've been waiting for you all morning, my darling. I knew you'd be able to help us with the film stuff. :)
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