Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Choice, Bro

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  • Russell Brown, in reply to Emma Hart,

    My god I love the internet. Here are the voting sheets.

    Chris Finlayson, a firm and somewhat troubling NO right up till tonight, voted AYE.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Or... no. Everyone's doing it tonight.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Or… no. Everyone’s doing it tonight.

    Those sheets are confusing.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Chris Finlayson, a firm and somewhat troubling NO right up till tonight, voted AYE.

    His vote was noes
    Or am i confused

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Good Choice, Bros and Bro-esses. Good night.

    ps Fuck you, Brendan Horan.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10631 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    This is a good night.
    And goodnight. :-)

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    I’m continually being confused by these competing ideas coming from the antis:

    “Gay marriage changes everything, it will destroy our society”

    “Gay people already have all the rights of marriage in civil unions, it’s a tiny change, why bother”

    Yep. And another classic of the antis is to (over) emphasize just how few gay people there are, and how only a minority of that group want "gay marriage" anyway. Someone on Kiwiblog put it like this: only "a very small subset of a small subset desire marriage". That same commentator also bought into the idea you mention that same sex couples already had the same rights thanks to the Civil Union Legislation.

    So as I replied to them: according to their own argument, only a very small subset of a small subset of society would want to take up the option of same sex marriage, and even then the rights and obligations they have will be mostly identical to what they have now. So where's the problem?

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Emma Hart,

    My god I love the internet. Here are the voting sheets.

    Brownlee voted for. I am genuinely staggered. Someone pointed out the age demographics of his electorate, maybe?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Lucy Stewart,

    Brownlee voted for. I am genuinely staggered. Someone pointed out the age demographics of his electorate, maybe?

    Perhaps, whatever his failings, he's actually not a social conservative. The only time I've met him was when he sat next to me on a plane. We discussed a New Yorker story we'd both read.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Perhaps, whatever his failings, he’s actually not a social conservative. The only time I’ve met him was when he sat next to me on a plane. We discussed a New Yorker story we’d both read.

    Entirely possible, but Marriage Equality had him listed as a definite no, and I'd never heard of him saying anything to contradict that during the six years he was (and still is, urgh) my electorate MP. So if he isn't, he's keeping it on the down-low. Or he's had a sudden change of heart, or...etc.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    hold your nose and write him a nice note (a bit like the not so nice one I just wrote to my National list MP)

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2605 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Lucy Stewart,

    Entirely possible, but Marriage Equality had him listed as a definite no

    Well, that page still has my local MP - Maggie Barry - listed as "undecided" which, when it counted, she wasn't. And I initially thought she voted NO because those damn voting sheets are confusing, but (for once) I'm glad to be wrong. Having to issue Barry a public apology on Twitter for the serve I gave her was... mortifying, but I survived. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Thank them all, make them realise their good behaviour. Get them all happy with themselves. Make it easy because as Paul Campbell proved peeps will be voicing their anger as well in either direction, (as he did with his local)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I wasn't actually angry, I just pointed out he was unlikely to get either of my votes - I'd previously written him nice note explaining how marriage equality was a family friendly thing to do (at least for my family)

    Mind you he's catholic, and used to run the local Catholic hospital, there might really be a bishop calling his vote for him, we constituents may have been pipped by his religion here

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2605 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Thank them all, make them realise their good behaviour.

    Quite – and there’s two more rounds before it becomes law. It’s not only polite to thank people who’ve acted well, but Colin Craig et. al. aren’t going to go away. And there’s a few MPs I’m going to make a special point of thanking (and encouraging to stay on the line), because I know their yes votes were well outside their comfort zones. IMO, that takes real clarity and courage and should be encouraged.

    Mind you he’s catholic, and used to run the local Catholic hospital, there might really be a bishop calling his vote for him, we constituents may have been pipped by his religion here

    Paul, I don’t mean to tone police but could you please be extremely careful about insinuating any MP votes according to directions from outside parties? While I totally disagree with them on this, the New Zealand Catholic Bishops’ Conference have been up front to a fault about their position on marriage equality. They’re also perfectly entitled to lobby MPs. But directing Catholic MPs how to vote on legislation is a line too far.

    Oh, and please don’t make extremely offensive and stereotypical presumptions based on someone’s religion. Plenty of people of faith support marriage equality, and it's neither fair nor helpful to lazily equate religion with homophobia.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    As for Brownlee --- all the Chch Nat MPs voted for, basically. I think some people on the other side of the fence may have engaged in some quite effective lobbying.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    hmm - reading the current Marriage Act, I didn't realise it is illegal in NZ to call someone a "bastard" (unless they actually are)

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2605 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    having the integrity to change your mind in the face of evidence - BLOODY LEGEND

    sure impressed me

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    all the Chch Nat MPs voted for, basically

    dpf has the votes broken down by age, location, ethnicity, etc. Chch MPs were 11-2 for. (There is a comment thread. Consider yourselves warned.)

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    it is illegal in NZ to call someone a “bastard” (unless they actually are)

    I’ll never forget the time I called a friend a bastard for winning at poker, when we were both in our teens. He said calmly, “Quite possibly.”
    I’ve never felt the same about that word since.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Emma Hart,

    dpf has the votes broken down by age, location, ethnicity, etc. Chch MPs were 11-2 for.

    An odd breakdown though. It says one gay MP voted against; I can count at least three.

    A pleasing aspect is the way NZ First has shown its regard for its voting base: the last gasp of the dinosaur Rob's mob.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Hebe,

    It says one gay MP voted against; I can count at least three.

    "Straight" is in inverted commas, at least. And I'm not going to call anyone gay who doesn't openly identify as such.

    I also can't criticise Finlayson for his vote. He believes God made him gay, but that homosexual sex is a sin, so he's celibate. That seems sufficient pain in his life.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Lilith - it's not that long ago (my childhood) when being a bastard was a really big deal, a source of great shame, thank goodness for the 60s/70s and all that

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2605 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    And I have put up a brief post at The Other Place. I've spent so very, very long arguing the facts on this. It seemed time to celebrate the emotional experience.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

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