Up Front: Young and Sort of Free
82 Responses
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Rules have been that I reserve the right to snoop or burst in at any time when computer is not used in public space. Perfect privacy is a privilege of adulthood. As teenage years wear on there might be room for negotiation about that, or not.
Because of my profession I'm reasonably certain I can snoop sufficiently well.
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My kids (aged 3 and 6) have relatively free access to the internet. We keep the computer in the family room and make sure an adult wanders by with some regularity. They know (well at least the six year old does) not to click a link unless they are very sure that it's likely to take them where they think it will go and to tell an adult immediately if they run across anything they find confusing or upsetting.
At the moment they mostly want games associated with their favourite cartoon characters so while it's possible they'll accidentally run into something a bit dodgey (Crispin knows for example that a youtube clip marked "dubbed" or "funny" won't be what he's looking for) I don't have enormous concerns. I may worry more and have to put more rules into place when they reach the stage of looking up gross stuff just to see how much they can squick themselves out.
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Mine are eleven and twelve-and-eleven-twelfths. They've been around computers their whole lives. We don't have filtering, and the most censorship they're subject to is that their computers have google safe search turned on.
They've only recently got email addresses, though, because I was really concerned about the hugely offensive spam they might be subject to. And I've been a bit more hovery in the last year as we've let them use MMORPGs and chat programs. Because I'm worried about bullying, not porn. And I'd hope if they were being bullied on line that they'd talk to me about it, just as if they were being bullied in RL.
All the sexual material on our hard drives belongs to me anyway.
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My kid has an email account through his school (they are doing email as part of literacy at the moment) which seems to be blessedly spam free. Must find out if he can access it from outside school.
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I'd be curious to know how other PA posters guide, control, censor their kids' internet experiences - and tv/movies, come to that.
Well, it's (relatively) simple for me as Big Gay Uncle Craig who most school holdays does Man-anny duties for my partner's (almost) 11 year old grand nephew and (almost 13 year old grand niece.
TV and internet use is strictly rationed and monitored, so I just back the play there. (Especially with niece, I really admire her mother for being informed, involved and setting very clear ground rules about her daughter using the net. Especially Bebo. Her attitude is essentially Mr. Judd's -- I'm your mother, and you're not living in a participatory democracy.)
But on a wet day, and they want to watch a DVD? The First Commandment of BGUC: "Though shalt not pout, whine or throw a tantrum when Thy Lord and Caregiver Sayeth Nay. For His Wrath is a Terrible Thing That Leadeth To Witholding of Pudding and Other Fun Stuff."
But they know not to even ask to watch something with a red sticker and capital R on the front. That's for grown-ups, and I've also explained that I'd be breaking the law (and in very deep poop with their Mum) by showing it to them.
The stuff with a yellow label is at my discretion: Doctor Who (mostly), fine. Buffy (mostly) and BSG no. Spirited Away - want to watch it for the hundredth time, go to. Princess Mononoke - hella no. And while Luke wasn't happy with the last, he did get it when I told him that in Japan comic books and cartoons aren't just for kids. And I really thought PM was more violent than he'd be able to take. (He's really quite squeamish for a little boy.)
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Spirited Away - want to watch it for the hundredth time, go to. Princess Mononoke - hella no. And while Luke wasn't happy with the last, he did get it when I told him that in Japan comic books and cartoons aren't just for kids. And I really thought PM was more violent than he'd be able to take.
When I saw both of these at film fests there were kids in the audience and I thought both times that the parents were thinking "cartoons are for children".
In Spirted Away there was a little girl beside me. When the Radish Spirit is in the lift (apologies to those who haven't seen the film) the girl asked her father "is he the bad guy?" The poor little thing couldn't even connect with the story so the images would've been weird and possibly disturbing.
Ditto for Monoke that reminded me in parts of some weird post-apocalyptic sci-fantasy cartoon I saw when I was a kid that disturbed me deeply (think somewhere between The Dark Crystal and Pink Floyd's the Wall
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The stuff with a yellow label is at my discretion
I'm a lot more cautious with other people's children than my own. With our kids, discretion is blue - M15+. If we chose not to show our pre-teens M rated stuff, they'd miss the LOTR and every Harry Potter movie from Goblet onwards. That HP should carry the same rating as Serenity seems utterly bugshit to me.
We showed them Blink, but during the day with the curtains open and we warned them it was scary. With Silence in the Library we forewarned them. Because it's stuff we've pre-watched, we're able to do that. We pre-warn them that some Buffy episodes might be upsetting, but in the main they've coped just fine.
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Actually, on the subject of rating tags and their occasional absurdity, people may find this mildly amusing.
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My son (10) tends to self-opt-out of stuff. If he's watching something and it gets a bit much for him, he asks "is this appropriate for me?" - even if I'm happy for him to watch it. (When he was 2 he picked up a sharp knife that his mother or I had left on the floor and gave it back to me and told me off for leaving it there).
Our computer is in my room and he doesn't use it a lot, but I just got a new laptop last weekend, so I suspect he'll be in there a bit more. I keep a moderate eye on him, pop in frequently etc. I set up his own account on the computer, but I reserve the right to snoop and figure out what he's been doing. So far it's only been watching muppet videos on youtube.
But he's got such a strong sense of boundaries I'm also very confident if he accidentally went some place that wasn't OK for him, he'd come tell me.
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I'm a lot more cautious with other people's children than my own.
Absolutely - which is why sometimes my judicial call is, "I'll talk it over with your Mum, and put this aside until next time." I'm also certain that if I plonked 'em down in front of a Kill Bill/__Sin City__/__300__ triple bill they'd rat me out in a heartbeat. There are much more pleasant ways to commit suicide.
But I think you've pointed out why it's really important parents don't abdicate the responsibility to use their own minds as filtering software. Luke's Mum was OK with him watching Revenge of the Sith. I have a friend who had to weather a Katrina-force tantrum when she didn't, not least because, having come out of an abusive marriage, she wasn't really confident he'd deal well with a central character almost choking his pregnant wife (who later dies in childbirth) to death, and (it is very strongly implied) murders a room full of children.
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Hadyn Green wrote :
Ditto for Monoke that reminded me in parts of some weird post-apocalyptic sci-fantasy cartoon I saw when I was a kid that disturbed me deeply (think somewhere between The Dark Crystal and Pink Floyd's the Wall
That would be Wizards then.
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That would be Wizards then.
Holy shit that's it! Is it as weird and crazy as I remember?
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Not to mention completely over rated.
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think somewhere between The Dark Crystal and Pink Floyd's the Wall
Actually The Wall freaked me a bit too (as did Tommy), that may be why I hate Pink Floyd now.
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I'd be curious to know how other PA posters guide, control, censor their kids' internet experiences - and tv/movies, come to that.
We don't filter, we've talked to the kids (10 & 13) about the possibility of nasty stuff showing up and we keep Google Safe Search switched on to try to minimise this. The kids are pretty savvy now in my opinion, they've had the net pretty much forever and they know there's no secrets if I want to look hard enough.
The saddest thing for me is the odd occasion when my youngest has stumbled onto something that has freaked him out completely. He learns from it but it's still not very nice for him. Last time was a couple of weeks ago, he'd been enjoying a series of cartoons on Youtube created by some young guy with a MySpace link listed. He went to the MySpace page and there was a comment from a teenage girl that whoever read her comment, she was going to visit them at 10.20 that night with a knife and murder them in their sleep. This is probably mildly entertaining when you are 15 but when you are 10 with an overactive imagination, well, he was beside himself. We tried to convince him it was a load of bollocks but he wasn't too sure. Naturally he kept himself awake until 10.25 to prove to ensure that it wasn't going to happen.
Re TV, it's shows like Family Guy, American Dad and South Park that annoy me. We have endless arguments that they're not just like The Simpsons, they're quite different and not suitable. Unfortunately, many families appear to believe they are just like The Simpsons if the kids friends are anythig to go by.
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I would be a terrible bastard as a parent. I am so censorious - my nieces have been heard to say to me " But Auntie Jackie, my mum let's me watch it".
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Well, all the disgusting filth you've been posting on this thread caused my work firewall to throw a fit and block me out, so I've only just managed to catch up with this thread. I hope you're all happy with yourselves, you dirty perverts.
Steven, what are these 'Darlics' of which you speak? :)
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Actually i was a bit naughty as a 'parent help' taking kids on school trips .... we had a home-mix cd of Mr Hanky's Xmas Poo & some Homer moments - stuff nine yr olds think is hilarious- and we'd have a carload of kids singing raucously all the way there & all the way back. Fuelled up on a big bag of lollies. Thrilled them to bits.
I'm surprised that my now-teenage sons have quite sophisticated responses to subtle or ironic humour, even though they prefer rubbish starring Adam Sandler, Jack Black and that other turkey Owen Wilson.
I reckon kids harden up a bit around 9-10 - I was alot more careful before that age to control what they saw (& no internet). i can't stand to watch stuff like "Alien" or other human-consuming horrors, i do think powerful images can stick in yr subconscious. And I'd rather have better quality 'murk' to draw on, creatively speaking.
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Geez, Emma, you're making me homesick for Brissie. I hadn't even heard about this, so clearly I need my wrists slapped :(
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I used to love Wizards, especially the monks, and the ending. I found a torrent of it a while ago (there is no DVD), and was, well disappointed. A work of its time perhaps and things have moved on and it has stayed static.
I can see how it would freak out a youngster though, I was at least 16 when I first saw it.
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I am all in favour of the freedom of the ideas and information the internet has to offer including adult content for adults.
What im not seeing here is anyone saying that kiddie porn is for sickos that need help or jail time!
Filters don't seem to be the answer with level of technology we have currently, but ten years ago the internet was not in every household.
If a magazine printed this stuff there would be serious trouble, why should ISP's that make millons not be taking greater efforts to block it? -
What im not seeing here is anyone saying that kiddie porn is for sickos that need help or jail time!
That's probably because it's not directly relevant to any discussion of filtering. Also if everyone agrees with that proposition, it doesn't make for a very long discussion. You want to have that conversation, go right ahead. While you're about it, you might like to define pornography.
If a magazine printed this stuff there would be serious trouble, why should ISP's that make millons not be taking greater efforts to block it?
They don't make their money from pron, do they Shayne? Nor do they produce it. And running an ISP isn't like running a library or a bookshop - you don't have control over the inventory.
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you might like to define pornography
Did we ever have a go at that? I do remember there was some discussion about what is "obscene". Isn't pornography whatever particular media turns you on?
Like for that woman who married the Berlin Wall, her pr0n mag of choice would be House and Garden.
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I used to love Wizards, especially the monks, and the ending. I found a torrent of it a while ago (there is no DVD), and was, well disappointed. A work of its time perhaps and things have moved on and it has stayed static.
There is a DVD - I know a guy who owns it (the same guy who used to own a red car with the number plate NECRON). Wizards was quite the formative experience for me, and while it doesn't really stand the test of time, the nostalgia factor more than makes up for it for me. And seeing a Mark-Hamill-voiced fairy get shot in the chest...
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Isn't pornography whatever particular media turns you on?
Hadyn: Take this down, because it will be on the exam. :)
If it arouses me, and is hanging on the walls of an art gallery or showing at the Film Festival, it is "erotica".
If it arouses the kind of white trash who thinks Outrageous Fortune is a toned down documentary -- and sold in sealed plastic bags or found behind a beaded curtain at a strip-mall Video Sleazy -- it is pornography.
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