Cracker by Damian Christie

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Cracker: Johnny Foreigner & the Auckland Property Market

109 Responses

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  • Jim Welch, in reply to WH,

    Wonga?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 43 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    Exempting Aussies means we have to exempt Chinese

    I've seen comment that this is incorrect - that earlier FTAs are exempt and only later-negotiated ones have to be matched. Someone may have a link?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16279 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

    Sacha, I am not an international trade lawyer (or any form of lawyer) but as I understand it, the comment centres around what clause 139 of the China FTA actually means:
    "3. Notwithstanding paragraph 1, the Parties reserve the right to adopt or maintain any measure that accords differential treatment to third countries under any free trade agreement or multilateral international agreement in force or signed prior to the date of entry into force of this Agreement."
    With the argument that Australia getting preferential treatment under CER precedes the China FTA.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 841 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Sacha,

    Well, there's this:

    Article 139 requires that Chinese investors be treated no less favourably then investors of any other country.

    And from the article I linked to before:

    Trade law specialist Daniel Kalderimis of Chapman Tripp told the Herald that on an initial reading, the policy could breach the most-favoured-nation treatment article of New Zealand's free trade agreement with China, though not the article on national treatment.

    The most favoured nation clause says that any favourable conditions China or New Zealand offers to third parties for investment activities must be offered to New Zealand or China as well. That means that any exemptions for Australians from new house-buying rules should also apply to Chinese.

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 1965 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to David Hood,

    Ummm... so article 139 says NZ can or can't treat Chinese investors differently from Australians? I'm really confused.

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 1965 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

    In my non-lawyery understanding, if it is a fresh policy exempting Australia, then China is exempted. If Australia is exempted due to CER then China is (maybe) not exempted. If the reason Australia happens to be exempt is that it meets a class distinction of reciprocal arrangement (rather than Australia being named per se), then I dunno what effect that would have.
    But most people are really not sure. You think it is a minefield now, wait until the TPP.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 841 posts Report Reply

  • JonathanM, in reply to David Hood,

    Interesting David - thanks for that. It kinda makes my point: If Labour had simply said "actually, we'd love to have accurate numbers, but the Nats shut down CHRANZ in 2011. What we do have is this survey here that suggests the number is around 5-7%. Professor X suggests that removing those people from the market would mean reduced prices of around 0-12%".

    That's a policy announcement that I and many other NZers would support. Instead, we get a bunch of weak waffle.

    Since Jul 2012 • 43 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Professor X can drop prices with mind power alone! But only on the weak willed.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8305 posts Report Reply

  • "chris",

    From the link I posted on the previous page; there are exemptions to the Beijing law for foreigners purchasing property:

    "Residents from China's Hong Kong and Macao special administrative regions, Taiwan and overseas Chinese should also be in possession of proper certificates when buying a house. "

    _________________________________________________________________

    This law does not apply to Overseas Chinese, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau residents, who are automatically eligible. The laws dictate that foreigners should only use and dwell in the house themselves and not buy a house for other purposes.

    http://www.easyexpat.com/en/guides/china/beijing/accommodation/buy-house-flat.htm

    What's to stop New Zealand from joining that game, leading with 'Australia is a renegade province of New Zealand', has always been part of New Zealand. Because it's like, totally true, you know; this being the world we live in now.

    anorak/chapeau

    location, location, locat… • Since Dec 2010 • 239 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    And Raymond Huo’s comments absolutely do not surprise me.

    In before the usual blubbery suspects start throwing round words like "house (insert minority here)".

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4060 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to BenWilson,

    The only sure way to drive prices down is to let Chuck Norris buy a house in NZ.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8305 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to BenWilson,

    The only sure way to drive prices down is to let Chuck Norris buy a house in NZ.

    "Nothing brings down property prices faster than a good old-fashioned gang war." - Avery Carrington, GTA Vice City

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4060 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I want what Ben's having :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16279 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to DeepRed,

    Heh, it was a good day today. Got to see an astrophysicist demonstrating Calculus* with a flying spinning kick, that sent his box of pens and other paraphernalia skittling across the room. Rock star lecturer.

    *Cuthbert Calculus - think Flight 714 when he's introduced to Carreidas.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8305 posts Report Reply

  • Just thinking,

    The Poverty Market needs to be addressed & that's Mum n' Dad investors nest egg.
    Remove the market for Investment Properties by targeting second to nth housing. This would devalue most homes in large cities and leave many with inflated mortgages. It would leave the market for housing for people wanting homes and houses would realise their true market value removed of speculators. Of course it would also remove this uncomfortable racist idea.

    Putaringamotu • Since Apr 2009 • 1144 posts Report Reply

  • FletcherB,

    I think the reasons Aussies are exempt is more practical than anything…. They live amongst us with no papers, no residency permits/visas, and no real way to tell they are not kiwis unless you demand everyone produce a passport to purchase property (including kiwi's who dont have one?) and if they came here before 1982(?) may not even have one of those themselves?

    West Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 786 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to "chris",

    Overseas Chinese, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau residenrts

    It may be worth noting, despite the risk of sparking a major political row, that Macau and Hong Kong are undisputed Special Administrative Regions of the People's Republic of China and Taiwan (big risk....) has never declared independence from China - in fact, Ma Yingjeou (or however he Romanises his name) is president of the Republic of China.

    [ducking for cover]

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 1965 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to DeepRed,

    “house (insert minority here)”.

    I was thinking far more in terms of how many Chinese people refer to their own compatriots and co-immigrants. No need for "house [anything]".

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 1965 posts Report Reply

  • "chris", in reply to Chris Waugh,

    [ducking for cover]

    Yeah that's a can 'o worms. It sounds like it would be well worth a visit.

    location, location, locat… • Since Dec 2010 • 239 posts Report Reply

  • WH, in reply to Jim Welch,

    Wonga is a “payday” lender and a British slang term for money. It is also the name of a 2004 coup d’etat in Equatorial Guinea and a kind of Australian pigeon.

    Since Nov 2006 • 553 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed,

    Racial politics aside, the non-resident housing proposal is fundamentally a form of capital control. On Planet Wall Street and its satellite Planet Key, capital controls are worse than armed revolutions or zombie outbreaks.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4060 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed,

    This letter to the editor in today's DomPost appears to be from a Singaporean. And it was the leading letter too...

    Local and New Zealand-born Chinese know that recent Chinese migrants are buying up land and properties to enrich themselves later. It's a common topic among established Kiwis of Chinese descent.

    When it's revealed in the media (Labour to bar foreign ownership of homes, July 29), there's an outcry from recent arrivals with billions of dollars. They cry ''racism''. That term is always used to silence observers, critics and investigators of the activities of complainants.

    Are these recent wealthy Chinese immigrants also buying their NZ passports/permanent resident permits for a mere NZ$2 million as they are doing in, for example, Singapore? It's a sore point among Singaporeans that they've become tenants of newer Chinese, who have bought many of the affordable apartments built by the government because they, the Singaporeans, haven't the same cash as wealthy Chinese arrivals.

    This is being repeated here. The Government must act and investigative journalists ferret out who benefits from all this troubling activity. Racism? Bah.

    ALLEN GOH

    Ohariu Valley

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4060 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson, in reply to BenWilson,

    No one who owns property is complaining

    I have always complained when my Westmere house valuation goes up by above average amounts. Because I plan to live here for a very long time, all the increased value does is increase my rates.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 385 posts Report Reply

  • Jim Welch, in reply to FletcherB,

    no real way to tell they are not kiwis unless you demand everyone produce a passport to purchase

    I keep seeing this, like giving your passport to your lawyer along with the million pieces of paper you have to provide to complete a property purchase is such an outrageous idea. It seems to me a small, easily satisfied requirement. If you don't have a passport, I'm sure a copy of your birth certificate would do it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 43 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to DeepRed,

    Racism? Bah.

    True, not racism, but it is rather redolent of a certain kind of prejudice common in Chinese communities. Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan vs. Mainland, Shanghai vs. everybody, Beijing vs. everybody especially Shanghai (mere merchants who wouldn't recognise culture if it grew in the back of their fridge) and Tianjin (they can talk, but their pockets are deep and their arms very short - never where white to a football match in Beijing (or green in Tianjin)), everybody vs. Henan, everybody vs. Dongbei... and when it turns to Han vs. minorities it gets a bit uncomfortably close to racism. And especially in cases like this, I'm not sure this kind of prejudice is terribly much better than racism. It's still singling out one arbitrarily defined group of people for your 2 minute hate for spurious reasons.

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 1965 posts Report Reply

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