Hard News: Veitch
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Defamatory statements have a pretty wide definition.
They "tend to lower a person in the estimation of right-thinking members of society, or that tends to cause the person to be shunned or avoided, or that tends to cause the person to be exposed to hatred, contempt or ridicule."
The guy's admitted beating his partner. It's hard to see how anything we say could damage his reputation more than what he has already publicly admitted himself.
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Good Listener editorial on National Library rebuilding folly (which includes the Turnbull)
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3410,
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Susan Boyle
The posted clip is a trimmed-down version. A more complete version (hat tip: Spareroom.co.nz) is...
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Stop the presses
I've just heard something that really shocks me about what Veitch's people are doing.
The Sunday newspapers are going to be very, very ugly.
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I've just heard something that really shocks me about what Veitch's people are doing.
The Sunday newspapers are going to be very, very ugly.
Not just this?
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Tell us more Russell!
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Yeas stopping the presses and leaving us there hanging is not going to work. Broooown! <shakes fist>
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Tell us more Russell!
I'm all ears as well - specially as I never read the Sunday papers - but surely if it could be said without repercussions Russell would be saying it outright...
Although I doubt it can be as bad as what I'm imagining right now (but, note carefully, not publicly saying - hi Team Veitch!).
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I now look forward to working with the charities who I love and that is the best thing about this sentence, I can get back to working with the charities and doing my community service with charities that I am passionate about.
So, how many charities want to taint themselves by being associated with a convicted domestic abuser?
I'm sure the queue will be a mile long.
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The guy's admitted beating his partner. It's hard to see how anything we say could damage his reputation more than what he has already publicly admitted himself.
This really doesn't fly.
And you really don't have much imagination :-)
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Graeme: think of it as a more amusing way of asserting truth as a defence. And of showing where I rank domestic abusers in my heirarchy or jerks.
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I'm all ears as well - specially as I never read the Sunday papers - but surely if it could be said without repercussions Russell would be saying it outright...
Yes. Sources and all that. But there are lawyers at the High Court.
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RB; you're going to have to tell us, otherwise we'll start guessing.
And you know where that will lead...
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there are lawyers at the High Court.
You'll be telling us there's traffic on Auckland's roads next, careful.
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Perhaps someone's being sued for damage to his toe
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Alright, seems I can tell you part of it.
Remember how Veitch's team hired a private investigator to dig up things about Dunne-Powell that could be used in the forthcoming trial?
Imagine if that information was somehow "leaked" to the Sunday papers, in the most unflattering way possible.
And imagine this in a context where Veitch and his lawyers are simultaneously issuing threats against media planning to tell the victim's story.
That sort of thing.
Meanwhile 3 News has reported that Olympic chef de mission Dave Currie was also told his character reference was in support of a passport application.
And the final paragraph from Susan Devoy's reference, referring specifically to a passport application, was deleted from the document presented to the court.
Far freakin' out.
I actually hope Grieve and Hughes are acting under instructions rather than providing the advice, because this seems very bad to me.
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Extraordinary. So in spite of this thing not going to trial there will be blood on the floor after all, to use Grieve's classy phrasing, and decency be damned?
I'm mentally drafting the letter I'm going to send to the first broadcaster that avails itself of the services of this fine upstanding person.
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After seeing that a man got 180 hours for stealing cheese, I decide to have a look (site:.nz "300 hours" "community service") what others did to get the same sentence.
Quitting NZ and carrying on a business while insolvent.
Stealing a pre-production copy of Sione's Wedding (note, Robbery, this is not an invitation to talk about copyright)
Driving with a blood alcohol of 739mcg/L
Not passing on employee PAYE to IRD
These are the kinds of things that normally attract 300 hours of community service.
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Imagine if that information was somehow "leaked" to the Sunday papers, in the most unflattering way possible.
I wonder if the papers are going to act as his PR machines, given the reaction so far.
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And the final paragraph from Susan Devoy's reference, referring specifically to a passport application, was deleted from the document presented to the court.
Seems to me that that is misleading the court, if the judge is so inclined (I would be, but that's me). Also, IMHO, Dame Susan would be justified in taking Grieve to the Law Society for "conduct unbecoming". Graeme?
Remember how Veitch's team hired a private investigator to dig up things about Dunne-Powell that could be used in the forthcoming trial?
Imagine if that information was somehow "leaked" to the Sunday papers, in the most unflattering way possible.
And imagine this in a context where Veitch and his lawyers are simultaneously issuing threats against media planning to tell the victim's story.
Given that only Team Veitch would have had access to the material, one wonders how it could have been "leaked" without their direct involvement.
And what's the pretext that Veitch could base his threats on? Surely not concern for Kristin Dunne-Powell's welfare? Bit late for that.
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Seems to me that that is misleading the court, if the judge is so inclined (I would be, but that's me). Also, IMHO, Dame Susan would be justified in taking Grieve to the Law Society for "conduct unbecoming". Graeme?
Grieve is claiming to know nothing and that it was Veitch's father who solicited the references.
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Well you have to learn how to be an honourable man from somewhere, I guess.
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Seems to me that that is misleading the court, if the judge is so inclined (I would be, but that's me). Also, IMHO, Dame Susan would be justified in taking Grieve to the Law Society for "conduct unbecoming". Graeme?
Grieve is claiming to know nothing and that it was Veitch's father who solicited the references.
I would be *very* surprised if it turned out that anyone on the legal team had knowingly have put a misleading character reference before the Court in circumstances like this.
If they did, I suspect that a law society complaint from the referee (or indeed from the judge herself) would be only one of their worries . Anyone who did would find that the next judge will very likely not believe you when you hand up a reference on behalf of the next client. If they worked for a firm, they would also be likely to be looking for new employment the next day.
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I've refrained from commenting, because while I share the opinions of many who have commented, I have not felt that I have had anything unique to add to the conversation.
However, I find this to be particularly vile (sorry, I don't mean the poster, I mean the actions by Veitch):
I really wonder if all the talk of suicide attempts wasn't just a smart gambit on the part of the defence team, knowing that when the time came it could be used to leverage their client out of a custodial sentence.
More than one close family member of mine has attempted (and succeeded) in suicide attempts, and I've noticed also someone who's tried the 'hey, look at me, look what you've driven me to' kind of grandstanding and emotional blackmail and the effect that that has had on people around them, and I've had to counsel students of mine who have been contemplating suicide (already after their own failed attempts) and I have only recently emerged from my own depressive (__not__ suicidal) illness of a three-four year period and I find the behaviour of Veitch and his defence team in trying this gambit to be utterly, utterly disgusting.
Suicidal feelings are no trivial matter (OK, no shit, Sherlock, and all that), but the kind of people who use it and its effect on people around them as yet another component of their narcissistic self-dramatisation fill me with no compassion at all, just contempt. Had Veitch (clearly incompetent) succeeded, I would have made the most ruthlessly Darwinist interpretation of his action.
I am scarcely less disgusted by his supporters, who unlike Susan Devoy, were not deceived, or did not care that they were.
Damn, that contributes nothing new, violating my own rule. It even looks like the sort of rant you'd see in the Herald's 'Your Views' sewer. Sorry. I've just had to deal with the real thing too many times.
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I think the judge did a judgy job to the best of her ability with all information to hand.That is what Law seems (to me)to be.Justice on t'other hand.......
Also legal aid can get you very expensive Lawyers so money isn't always the case.
I do think he is doing a fine job of digging a deeper grave so keep ya shovels handy. Give him the helping hand he seems to be asking for. For Russells sake wait until Monday.
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