Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: You down with TPP?

52 Responses

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  • nzlemming, in reply to Sacha,

    IP is all about reputation and value premiums, so highly relevant if we trade that off for last century's priorities.

    China is not a party to the TPPA so Chris is right - not relevant ;-)

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2107 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to nzlemming,

    not relevant

    Though if the TPPA does come into force and we continue to allow cowboy operators in the dairy industry who see potential new markets opening up....

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 2110 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    Ah, well, whole different game, then.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2107 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed,

    Once again, this Crikey column on the Aussie experience comes to mind. Even the strongest military allegiance couldn't get Aussie produce unrestricted access to the US market:

    So America instantly gets 99 percent tariff free access to Australia, and in 2022 we get to sell them some cattle (I prefer an 18 year old single malt with my steak, not a Scotch with my 18 year old steak), and the farmers of Wisconsin, Minnesota and Florida keep the milk and sugar out of the trade equations.

    The TPPA in its current form is cargo cultism if I ever saw it.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to nzlemming,

    all deffuts....

    Edit: That site is sooo broken

    Stuff was always going to be a bad brand name
    for Fairfax to hang their hat on...
    as it stands it is stuffed full of old stuff,
    repeated links to the same stuff
    and you're stuffed if you're looking for
    the good stuff from recent papers
    - like reviews, most of the good articles
    from their Good Living supplement (Press).
    The Sunday Star Times page has reduced to
    merely a contact list for subscribers ...
    good luck on finding any recent columns by Rod Oram,
    or anyone else worth reading - and exactly what the
    benefit and purpose of "Stuff Nation" is totally eludes me..

    They are squandering valuable bandwidth
    and inhouse generated resources
    when they could be part of the solution...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4962 posts Report Reply

  • Gabor Toth, in reply to Graham Dunster,

    Rod Oram's recent SST column was rather interesting about the agricultural/dairy access to the USA. (No link as I can't unscramble Fairax's Stuff site.)

    Press Display folks.
    Most municipal and university libraries subscribe to it and offer free access to library card holders. Go to your local library's website and check their list of databases.
    Ta Dah!

    Wellington • Since Dec 2006 • 120 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    exactly what the benefit and purpose of “Stuff Nation” is totally eludes me

    Sharing the op ed megaphone with citizens who aren't professional writers, in a much longer format than letters to the editor? Not an unworthy goal, I would have thought. (Disclaimer: the technical side of Stuff is a big part of my day job).

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2967 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    The thing about the TPP is we are all whistling in the dark, because the whole thing is shrouded in the most ridiculous and undemocratic secrecy. The sort of secrecy usually only invoked in this country because the state has got something to hide (your honour, the prosecution gives you the GCSB and Kim Dotcom). If cheerleaders like O'Sullivan are perplexed by the latent and active hostility to the TPP, and resent being called economic Quislings and worse, then surely they have to look in their own backyard for the reason why and the solutions.

    When all you can hear is long banging noises in the darkness out there, you don't know if whether it an angry grizzly bear trying to get into your storehouse or just a mangy bunny in its death throes. But to be on the safe side, people will always fearfully populate their mind with the biggest, baddest bear imaginable.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1806 posts Report Reply

  • Juliet Hamill, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    I think the secrecy is exactly why there has been little to no mainstream media/public interest. Hard to get people interested in something which might be happening, but we aren't sure what it might be...

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Lyndon Hood,

    The thing about the TPP is we are all whistling in the dark

    Well, there’s been a fair quantiy of draft-leaking, and countries have varying degrees of openness about the current agreement and their negotiating position. That said, my impression of the drafts is they are a big pile of options.

    This guy http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2012/12/03/canada-weighs-in-peter-clark-on-the-tpp/ (in the PDF) seems to go through positions country by country.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1096 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Juliet Hamill,

    I think the secrecy is exactly why there has been little to no mainstream media/public interest. Hard to get people interested in something which might be happening, but we aren’t sure what it might be…

    If only John Hartevelt had the same fervour towards the TPPA as he did on the School Report.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4306 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    Ursa the working classes...

    But to be on the safe side, people will always fearfully populate their mind with the biggest, baddest bear imaginable.

    ...and thereafter live with the stench of dead and rotting rabbits...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4962 posts Report Reply

  • Allan Moyle,

    One thing that has been seriously overlooked in the TPP discussions is that this will be a deal – if it comes to pass – with the US Federal Govt. State Legislatures in US will not be bound by many of its requirements and can continue to offer disproportionate incentives and subsidies for industries and companies to come to their state to set up business. It is hard to swallow the current NZ Govt line of more jobs and incomes for NZ when these actions will be allowed to continue.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 91 posts Report Reply

  • Allan Moyle, in reply to Gabor Toth,

    Reading that piece from Rod makes me think of John Key and Tim Groser as the trade agreement equivalent of "Dumb and Dumber"

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 91 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Allan Moyle,

    State Legislatures in US will not be bound by many of its requirements and can continue to offer disproportionate incentives and subsidies for industries and companies to come to their state to set up business.

    This particular facet of the US set-up ends up disadvantaging the US as a whole far more than anyone else, I promise. And I'm not quite sure I see the relevance re: our desire to export them agricultural products.

    Amherst, MA • Since Nov 2006 • 2093 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Allan Moyle,

    Reading that piece from Rod

    Wish I could. Either distant and tiny or close-up and blockily unreadable on my screen. Here come the paywalls I guess. Or visits to te Library.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16680 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    In matters of trade and diplomacy America has always appeared (to me) to behave like the unwanted Christmas relative. Everyone is special when a good nosh is at stake. There is no shortage of special relationships as there is no shortage of loved and neglected relatives. What annoys me most is how successful the special relationship con is.

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 724 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to 81stcolumn,

    Scrooge, bullies and parasites...

    ...the unwanted Christmas relative.

    I see the US as the cuckoo in the nest, after they elbowed their way into the original P4 group, and then effectively took it over and started calling the shots, while locking it down, and salting the earth, with their standard brand of paranoid secrecy and corporate kowtowing.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4962 posts Report Reply

  • Bruce Hitcchcock, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    Hi Chris, Couldn't argee more! Synlait, amoungst others have invested a lot of time and money into the Chinese baby formula market in particular and our Government should be putting all the pressure it can on Bejing to protect our IP. If both countries signed a stringent HAACP agreement I believe it would be a bigger earner for us than the TTP.

    Invercargill • Since Dec 2012 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Bruce Hitcchcock,

    Bejing to protect our IP

    Except that that's only part of the problem. There's plenty the NZ government could be doing to clean the industry up in NZ. But no, the Market will sort everything out...

    ...by refusing to take our produce because we let cowboys ruin our reputation.

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 2110 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Bruce Hitcchcock,

    Wouldn't it be better, rather than trying to sue people for ripping off brands or whatever, for China to have better regulation of food quality? Then we'd be able to compete as a provider of quality product rather than the only people allowed to draw an anchor on the packet.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4459 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Or instead of commodities like powdered milk, we could sell premium items like cheese and yoghurt, where the quality or lack of is self evident.

    (We could start by having reasonably priced premium cheese in our home market).

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4459 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Then we’d be able to compete as a provider of quality product

    We already do that – trust me, the ads play up “clean, green, quality, safe” big time.

    Or instead of commodities like powdered milk, we could sell premium items like cheese and yoghurt

    We already do that too. It’s a little odd being at a banquet in the Great Hall of the People and the waiter brings a little basket of bread and a plate full of single-serve packets of Anchor butter. Anchor and Westgold (I think? West-something) butter and Mainland cheese are very common in supermarkets selling Western goods. I don’t know how the price compares with NZ, but last I looked a 250g block of Mainland cheese cost at least RMB30, which is roughly NZ$6.

    ETA: And yes, it would be much better for China to have better enforcement of food quality and safety regulations.

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 2110 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    This morning's debate on Media 3, with Fran O'Sullivan and Bernard Hickey, was very instructive and a reminder to other areas of NZ media that they should be paying more attention to the possible ramifications of TTP.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2311 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    I have yet to see any sort of clearly explained cost/benefits explanation from the government on the TPP. I'm not talking about general "it will be good for X or Y industry" explanations, but instead one that specifies sector by sector benefits (dollar value), with the "working" shown.

    Until I do I'm not planning to change my view on the matter that we will have a similar result as the Australia-US deal earlier in the century. I studied that a bit at uni as it was happening and was happy enough with the general conclusion that it was not worth the cost.

    If you care to do so, try and track down the reports that were in favour of the FTA, they all promised massive benefits but then when it came to explaining the figures, things became rather woolly and ridden with assumptions.

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 889 posts Report Reply

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