OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: Dear Labour Caucus

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  • Emma Hart, in reply to Steve Parks,

    I think I was getting the term ‘fight baiting’ from the ‘fight chasing arsehole’ comment Emma Hart made.

    I can't remember the exact term I used, and I'm not going back and finding it because I have to catch a plane in three hours, but you did notice that I wasn't talking about Giovanni, right? I can totally see how in context people would take it that way, but I wasn't.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4285 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Emma Hart,

    I can totally see how in context people would take it that way, but I wasn't.

    You didn't? ARGH!

    Some of Gio comments do have a strange effect on me -- he had me licking utensils in my kitchen not all that long ago.

    I'm sure it's wrong of me to love this sentence, but I do.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7315 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4441 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Pretty happy about how things have turned out, and Emma I did wonder, clear now. Onya y'all. I'm in Dunedin, right on the beach, broadband but no cellphone signal. There are waves out front, I am not looking, my board and more vitally my wetsuits are in Auckland.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2468 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    I think I heard it right.
    Yesterday, in The Big House, johnkey said.
    "I would like to thank the Rugby World Cup for winning us the election"
    Not his exact words but I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.

    Had to have a juvenile giggle at Phillip Stoner Twyford as well.
    Oh yeah,
    John Banks...
    Caucus.
    lol
    ;-)

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4441 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to rjal,

    Your first comment on this issue – a sort of idiots guide to the conversation – helped enormously. I saw a consistency in Gio’s comments that I had somehow previously missed. Looking back I now wonder how I missed what now seems obvious (sorry Gio) and has given me pause for thought. I really should have mentioned that in my first comment

    I understood that Giovanni was pursuing a line of argument, one he’d introduced. I was disappointed that he seemed unwilling or unable to modulate his style when it was evident that someone else was upset, and that, rather, he seemed to express some pride in it.

    Then, when I’d indicated that I was in some distress over all this – I was, I was feeling really bad – and specifically asked everyone to “show good grace to each other”, his immediate response was to flip me the bird and have yet another macho dig at Damian. I thought that was just nasty and hurtful. It was hurtful to me.

    And then, when he finally answered Sacha’s question:

    Practical request: can you please link to a forum that you reckon does a good job with that.

    Not a current generalist forum, no, not in English at least. One can find excellent and highly accessible writing outside of socialist discussion forums (Scott Hamilton at Reading the Maps and Dougal McNeill at Neu Hauf-Way Hoose are foremost in New Zealand in my books) but no model of what I’m thinking of. Of course there aren’t very many open communities a-la PAS to begin with, which is rather the problem. However Usenet had some class-literate politically focussed groups back in the day, and it really shouldn’t be an impossible thing to countenance. So long as the lack of that dimension on PAS is even perceived as a problem, and I’m not at all sure that it is.

    Clearly, I’m an ideological failure, although it’s some comfort that I apparently have every other mainstream forum in the English language for company. I like to think I’m doing a bit better on the basic humanity index.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17938 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to nzlemming,

    Also, I don't believe that Farrar is that far right, but only because I don't think he actually has any political principles beyond gaining power.

    I don't think that's entirely fair. I can't see him walking away from National any time soon, but he's also publicly criticised them on various matters.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2185 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Paul Williams,

    I don’t think that’s entirely fair. I can’t see him walking away from National any time soon, but he’s also publicly criticised them on various matters.

    I suspect he'll level out again, but he was terribly partisan during the election campaign.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17938 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Clearly, I’m an ideological failure

    Chardonnay is meant to be the consolation, I gather :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15711 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Sacha,

    Chardonnay is meant to be the consolation, I gather :)

    I shall bear that in mind after our show this evening :-)

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17938 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Yeah, elections bring out the partisan in him. They do in me too.

    Chardonnay is meant to be the consolation, I gather :)

    Pink Gin too.

    But on the issue of a voice/constituency for class, I'm picking Jan Logie to be very effective.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2185 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I understood that Giovanni was pursuing a line of argument, one he’d introduced. I was disappointed that he seemed unwilling or unable to modulate his style when it was evident that someone else was upset, and that, rather, he seemed to express some pride in it.

    I was extremely irritated by what appeared to me to be an extraordinary (and self-serving), level of preciousness. Good to see that Damian can be hurt (and you can be hurt), but that other emotions aren't allowed. And now Emma wasn't even referring to me when she called me an arsehole. So good of her to take ten pages or thereabouts to clarify that, then.

    Clearly, I’m an ideological failure

    Yes, that is totally what I meant by "there aren't many communities like PAS to begin with". And it is also what I meant by writing over 7,000 comments on PAS. It was all subtly aimed at pointing out your personal ideological shortcomings - as indeed I have done in a number of forums over the years. I'm sure it wasn't the opposite.

    This has just moved beyond a joke. If people would be kind enough not to involve me in this argument any longer, I'd like to go home now.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7315 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Okay, I'll leave it there. I did genuinely try and explain how I was feeling, but apparently I was only displaying an extraordinary and self-self-serving level of preciousness.

    Merry Christmas and a fine summer to you and yours, sincerely.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17938 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Nope sorry I don't want that to be the last note in this thread. I don't really understand what is going on here, words are being said that are hurtful for no reason that makes sense to me. It doesn't matter if they are said sarcastically or ironically they are still hurtful.

    I've said this almost every year here in one form or another
    Russell …
    You have created and hosted a wonderful community here. I have benefitted from the voices of the people you have brought here in ways that very few will understand. I am deeply and sincerely appreciative of the effort and honest care, even love, that you Russell have brought to this site.

    May your holiday season be a wonderful and happy one.

    Thank you.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3108 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Oh fantastically well said Bart, thank you, thank you, thank you!

    < /said without prejudice to any of the parties to the disagreement>

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2185 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    I'm all right, but I was feeling tired and distressed on Monday, in part because I thought I should have handled things better in a thread I wasn't enjoying but also didn't feel able to ignore.

    On the upside, it's a shining day and my lovely workmates and I are going for curry after our final Media7 recording for the year. Knowing those workmates, it won't stop with the curry. They make me go out with them, honest.

    Also: if you missed it on t'other thread, donations towards our dev costs were about $3000. Given that we're unlikely to see payment on other fronts for some time, that's been really helpful. I'm very much looking forward to launching the food blog in Feburary now.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 17938 posts Report Reply

  • James Francis, in reply to Paul Williams,

    Seconded. Thirded.

    St John's, Newfoundland • Since Nov 2006 • 112 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    'Fight Chasing Arsehole’ should be the next big X-Box game.

    For the record the issue of media bias against basic Labour Party principles (Unions, the minumum wagers and the dolecitizens) was introduced to me in a University paper in 1991. There is a media problem with these principles, maybe because they are so modern media unsexy and in the union case, a long time, well defined enemy of National Party progress.

    Business is very much potrayed as a white shining knight full of bright lights with the only ideas or ways that will lead to true stability. We have strong business news sections everywhere. Sure business collapses are reported with vigour but that's because the stories are always tragic.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Paul Williams,

    I don't think that's entirely fair. I can't see him walking away from National any time soon, but he's also publicly criticised them on various matters.

    I did say principles. I said nothing about the vehicle he's chosen...

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 1701 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    Employers' and manufacturers' lobby group Business New Zealand has injected a little spirit of the Grinch into the Christmas edition of its ManufacturingNZ newsletter, which highlights "three types of people to fire immediately."

    Taken from the financial news agency Bloomberg's Business Week publication, the article suggests that "victims", "non-believers" and "know-it-alls" are the three types of people that businesses should show the door to.

    I wish we had a Daily Show. Merry Xmas.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    David Shearer's Opening Address-in-reply.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1353 posts Report Reply

  • Cecelia, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    Well, actually, I liked it. Thanks for the link.

    Hibiscus Coast • Since Apr 2008 • 505 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Cecelia,

    Me too - reasoned but with a kick of passion behind it and kicking it to the Nact-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to Cecelia,

    Yeah, I kind’ve liked it too. I want to like Shearer. When he’s getting raggy on the Nats, I like him.
    But I find his ‘new’ vision of smart green jobs and industries a little borrowed, and a little blue :)
    Can we pull lots of people out of poverty with ‘smart’ market jobs and education? We’re no good at ‘commercialising’ our genius? Couldn't you almost hear Joyce saying some of these things?
    Since Gio ain't here to ask the question- How is Shearer’s vision for NZ ‘left’?
    We have growing and shameful inequality in NZ. I don’t think there’s any way to halt it that doesn’t involve turning away from ‘the markets’ for some straightforward old-fashioned wealth redistribution.
    Sharing it round- there’s an idea!

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1353 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    <q>for some straightforward old-fashioned wealth redistribution.
    Sharing it round- there’s an idea!

    O please tell me more - because, as far as I know, this has never actually happened in AotearoaNZ?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

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