Southerly: The Astonishing New Car from Bavaria that Won't Cost the Earth.
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I wonder if the Loremo will use The solomon patent on it hybrid version.
Oh and David and Stephen, you do realise that changing languages mid conversation is very very geeky:)
I agree, it reminds me of my voyage aboard the SS Vestern.
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I actually thought David was quoting Uli, otherwise I would have stuck to English. But anyway, in subsequent correspondence David has kindly invited my to use the informal mode of address :)
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Sighs
I've been driving efficient European turbo-diesels for about 6 years now, mainly because I actually prefer diesel engines to petrol (they just "feel" better to me).
But for the average punter the gloss is wholly rubbed off by the Road User Charge thing that almost doubles the fuel cost. As one of the review articles linked to, it actually costs more to run the Loremo in RUC costs than fuel.
Given that small efficient turbo diesels have the lowest carbon footprint of any available and practical "car class" vehicle available....a govt intent on improving our CO2 balance could do a lot worse than removing this very specific disincentive.
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I see the petrol heads are coming out of the woodwork...
Keith Ng wrote:
I was gutted to discovered that my last (first and only) vehicle, a very humble 1984 Honda City, only rates at around 4-5L/100km. I use to be so impressed by its fuel efficiency...
... ultimately, isn't it a marketing/design/purchase problem?
Don't be gutted, dude -- 4-5 litres/100 km is stunningly good! My headache-in-a-can Citroën -- which I suffer to own on account of its fuel efficiency -- only does 6.5 litres/100 km.
You're probably right about fuel efficient cars basically being a marketing/design problem now. But it seems to me that if fuel prices continue their expected rise, and if straight men are driving them elsewhere, then it can only be a matter of time before they become more acceptable in New Zealand. Look how far soccer has come in this country.
Stephen Judd wrote:
The problem with scooters and tuktuks is that they generally have two-stroke engines with a very dirty exhaust as far as particulates go...
Exactly... not to mention all the unburnt oil/hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, and nitric oxide you could wish for (and before anyone gets excited: nitric oxide is the uncool one, which makes you dead rather than high).
Bart Janssen wrote:
Which raises a question I have about the loremo. Just how much of the modern safety engineering is retained in a superlight car like the loremo?
As I understand it, the linear cell structure is safer in terms of crashes than the monocoque approach (for a given weight). The Loremo certainly meets all the European automotive safety standards.
The US State Department's electronic journal 'Economic Perspectives' reports that:
Lighter weight formerly meant costly metals such as aluminum and magnesium. Now, ultralight steels can double a car’s efficiency without extra cost or decreased safety. With clever design, even conventional steels can yield surprising results. A German startup (Loremo) diesel roadster combines 160- to 220-kilometer-per-hour top speeds with a fuel economy from 1.5 to 2.7 liters per 100 kilometers...
Bart Janssen wrote:
... you do realise that changing languages mid conversation is very very geeky
Alas, I am guilty of being both a geek and an idiot. It turns out that I actually got Stephen confused with a certain Stefan J-----, who really is German, and who sends me helpful emails whenever I make a mistake RE: Germany. I can only explain this by saying that my brain cells are dying due to lack of differential equations over the past few months. On the plus side, the other Stephen and I have now resolved to use the intimate form in our conversations -- which, by the way, sounds dodgier than it actually is.
Philip Wilkie wrote:
... a govt intent on improving our CO2 balance could do a lot worse than removing this very specific disincentive.
You're dead right about this. And I wish you could convince our politicians of it...
Of course, as Stephen McKernon from the Cycling Advocates' Network has pointed out to me:
... sustainability is not just about fuels. It's also about social and economic consequences. First, cars are implicated directly in congestion, accidents and urban sprawl (for example), each with its economic costs outside the transport system. Second, cars are implicated less directly in problems such as obesity/ low levels of physical activity, over-spending/ household debt, social isolation and so on. In other words, energy-sustainable cars merely continue to contribute to other sustainability issues. Driving down car use is an important part of sustainable transport. To put this another way, the real issue in transport is sustainable TRANSPORT, not sustainable energy.
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Exactly... not to mention all the unburnt oil/hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, and nitric oxide you could wish for (and before anyone gets excited: nitric oxide is the uncool one, which makes you dead rather than high).
Interesting. I totally get some geek cred deducted for not knowing this. Is the two-stroke engine used because of size? i.e. Is there a minimum viable size for a four-stroke engine that limits how small vehicles can get?
Also, does it mean I shouldn't buy a scooter?
(That's a curious trade-off, actually. Is reducing my carbon footprint desirable if its means polluting locally?)
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Keith Ng wrote:
Is the two-stroke engine used because of size? i.e. Is there a minimum viable size for a four-stroke engine that limits how small vehicles can get?
Two-stroke engines are used mainly for their power-to-weight ratio and cheapness. They have good power-to-weight ratio because they produce one 'power stroke' in every two, rather than one in every four (as per the four-stroke engine). They also use simple reed valves & ports (hence no valve-train requirements) and are usually air-cooled -- all of which makes them very cheap.
But there are also drawbacks. The fact that they generally use crankcase compression (i.e. a dry sump) means you have to mix oil with the petrol, which is substantially unburnt and comes straight out the exhaust pipe. The fluid-dynamic and thermodynamic compromises involved in getting the exhaust gas out, and the air/fuel in (over a wide range of engine speeds), means that you are often operating with non-optimal combustion -- which produces all the nasties like CO, UHCs, and NOX, etc. Plus there's usually no catalytic converter, of course.
They can, however, be optimized to perform much better than the standard-issue model, by using fuel injection, seal lubrication metering, and cunning exhaust design, etc. But this all makes them more expensive -- although I seem to (vaguely) remember than someone had a plan to improve 3rd-world two-stroke engine design by doing just this.
Incidentally, the big constant-speed two-stroke diesel ship motors are very efficient, and are among the highest-efficiency heat engines ever built. Generally speaking, small engines are usually less mechanically efficient because friction becomes a large proportion of their output power.
Keith Ng wrote:
I totally get some geek cred deducted for not knowing this.
Not at all. I did my honours' dissertation on an improved two-stroke engine design. Otherwise I would never know this crap. God knows, I often wish that I didn't.
Oh, and probably the Japanese scooters have better emissions...
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Hi Keith
So what are you trying to say you don't want to be a geek?!? You got something against us geeks?????
As for your scooter plans. I'm guessing how bad the pollution is relates pretty closely to price. Pay more probably get a better (more efficient) motor.
But on the big plus side the carbon cost associated with making and shiping your new scooter to NZ is a fraction of that for a standard car. The same is probably true for the Loremo which sounds as if most of its gains come from being light and using less materials in construction.
On the minus side is riding a scooter is much more likely to get you in hospital, which almost certainly has a huge carbon cost. Besides we don't really want you to end up in hospital:).
On balance I think you'd be drier and better for the environment in a car:).
cheers
Bart
I'm a geek, I've done the test to prove it! -
For your geeky pleasure
the geek test -
I was talking to a friend who is Indian and had recently been back there on holiday after being away for a decade, and when I asked him if things had changed much he immediately said the big cities seemed less polluted. He attributed this to government measures which had forced rickshaw drivers (and maybe other drivers) to use cleaner fuel (CNG he thought).
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Keith
You could also try a four stroke scooter. Or a small motorbike (which are cheaper to buy because they're less trendy). A Suzuki 125 is not too dissimilar to a scooter in terms of fuel economy I'd guess.And as for 2 stroke diesels, I have fond memories of the old Mount Cook Denning buses run by mount cook lines, and later discovered their distinctive engine note relates to them being a big 2 stroke turbo V8. How very american somehow.
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Yes, I have been the rear seat passenger in a Messerschmitt KA, a unique and scary experience as we slowly accelerated to highway velocity and truck wheels thundered by at eye level. Similarly, the Loremo evokes images of a sardine tin with a plastic top; it does the job but is easily squashed flat.
For those interested in efficiency, my Morris 1000 (bought for $475) would travel from Wellington to Auckland for under $5 and never exceeded the speed limit on the open road. No car that I have owned since has ever been so economical.
Didn’t the Ford GT40 V8 sound good? Cars should be rated on sound, not rational stuff.
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This is less related to efficiency than it is to automotive sociology, but if there's one way to reduce the number of Remuera tractors on the road without punishing drivers who actually go dirt-bashing, it would probably take the form of a new driver's licence type for SUVs.
Motorbikes, passenger vehicles, trucks, and what have you, all have separate licence classifications, so it would be logical for SUVs to have the same.
A deliberately hard-to-pass licence test would certainly sort the dirt-bashing men from the status-symbol boys.
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if there's one way to reduce the number of Remuera tractors on the road without punishing drivers who actually go dirt-bashing
Well you could take the attitude that folks who want to go "dirt bashing" should use their vehicles off road only. There really is no reason for a 4WD vehicle to be on the city streets at all. Even farmers mostly don't use their 4WDs on the roads they usually have a street or town car that is easier and cheaper to drive than their farm vehicles.
Whether that would take the form of a complete ban from the roads or merely a ban from town or city roads wouldn't make much difference. For those who wanted to "dirt bash" they'd have to get a trailer or store their dirt bashers near their play area.
cheers
Bart -
A practical question - am on the lookout for a second car and would prefer to buy something that is sustainable and economical.
On the list is the Prius - I've been looking at a second hand one, as on the website: http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/
But not sure of the potential disposal issues of said batteries and/or the disadvantages of buying a second hand Gen 2 version of the Prius. I don't need to tow anything - but small children might be on the horizon - I like the idea behind the Prius - but don't want to be stuck with something that's going to require another mortgage to maintain or service.
Any advice from learned folk here would be much appreciated.
The other option is a relatively new Toyota - that's easy on the petrol, and reliable.
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Tim Kong wrote:
am on the lookout for a second car and would prefer to buy something that is sustainable and economical...
... on the list is the Prius
Your other option is to go for a small diesel like the Citroën C3 1.4SX 5DR, which is actually slightly more efficient than the Prius. This would work around any (potential) battery disposal problems, and have decent room for any (potential) kids.
And if any of the Citroën bits fall off you can just lick-and-stick them back on again. Brilliant!
In case you haven't found it yet, this is a good NZ site for comparing fuel efficiency of different models:
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Dear god in heaven, it's recommending a Skoda
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