Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: What Now?

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  • Steve Barnes,

    300+ casualties is pretty horrendous.

    Not wishing to be picky but…

    Casualty (person), a person who is killed or injured in a war or disaster

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4454 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Megan Wegan,

    The 200 (ish) figure is the people that are missing, and believed to have been somewhere they are likely to have been hurt. The 148 (so far) figure is included in that 200. They've only officially named 8 victims.

    Thank you Megan.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7315 posts Report Reply

  • recordari,

    From here.

    The death toll from the massive Christchurch earthquake will be more than 200, police said tonight.

    Superintendent Dave Cliff confirmed the death toll in Christchurch had increased to 147.

    He said there are still more than 200 people missing, including a New Zealand police officer.

    "We know many - if not all - of the confirmed dead will be on that list," Mr Cliff said this evening.

    "So there are still over 50 unaccounted for."

    So hopefully less than 300, but still too many.

    AUCKLAND • Since Dec 2009 • 2607 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Christopher Dempsey,

    Christchurch, as a city, took 150 years to be built and it will take another 150 years to be rebuilt. City building isn't an off-the peg exercise as some are wont to think.

    I feel pretty sure you can whack up buildings a lot faster now. It really depends on how much money is spent, and how much political will there is to get it done.

    It's not nice to say it, but actually just getting on with it good and fast could be extremely stimulatory to the economy. There's never been a better excuse to pump 10 billion through. Could this be the "tradie-led recovery"?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8040 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    I think you’d have a tough time getting people down here to agree that the Cathedral shouldn’t be rebuilt. It’s sad. We need a symbol of hope. Yes, we also need some kind of monument, but that’s the building that symbolises our city.

    I don't know if the Cathedral would be right, or would be offered, but I'd like to see a building become a memorial/museum to what has happened to Christchurch and the eventual rebuilding.Something that had educational/relaxation/historical elements to it.

    It won’t be easy. Getting over 50 percent hasn’t happened since 1951.

    Easier now. Under FPP every vote actually ended up in the final tally. Under MMP with all the parties that end up under 5% you'd probably only need 45 - 47% to get 50% of parliament

    Since Nov 2006 • 6145 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    1600 or so buildings in the CBD yellow or red stickered. This is not going to take 1, 2 or 5 years to replace and rebuild. Hundreds of houses outside the CBD need demolishing, rebuilding or repairing. Again this is not going to be a 6 month job. It's staggering. What the hell do you do for the totally wrecked families? Tents? Caravans? Hostels? I have got this crazy idea of kitset Lockwood style homes being produced using NZ trees, NZ sawmills, NZ workers. Afterall the govt is looking at importing temporary(?) housing.

    We could then let those who take the temporary building cheap finance in the future if they want to change their box for a personal home.If these kitset houses were a decent design they could be dismantled and used elsewhere.

    BenWilson's comment of "whacking up buildings" fast these days may be true. But, again, would we be paying for the haste again in 20 years??

    Where the hell do you find quailifed carpenters/plumbers/electricians in such numbers to ensure a quailty job is done with any rebuild? How hard would it be to have Polytechs run crash course for chippies with on the job training - of which there will be plenty to practice on. It would be worth paying a premium for good tutors to come off the building sites to take the classes.

    Where do you find enough qualified building inspectors to check the work in progress?

    It's beginning to boggle.....

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1459 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Ross Mason,

    What the hell do you do for the totally wrecked families? Tents? Caravans? Hostels? I have got this crazy idea of kitset Lockwood style homes being produced using NZ trees, NZ sawmills, NZ workers. Afterall the govt is looking at importing temporary(?) housing.

    Italy has had comparable earthquakes. After Friuli (1976: 989 victims and 45,000 people left homeless), people moved initially into trailers and then within months into prefab temporary villages. Whole towns were rebuilt inside of ten years.

    The Irpinia earthquake was... a whole other story. But there were different issues there (read: mafia, extensive corruption).

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7315 posts Report Reply

  • Kracklite, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    I don’t know if the Cathedral would be right, or would be offered, but I’d like to see a building become a memorial/museum to what has happened to Christchurch and the eventual rebuilding.Something that had educational/relaxation/historical elements to it.

    That is what cathedrals are for now. Consider St Paul's and Westminster Abbey in London - they're reliquaries. It's my hope too, but I also think it's inevitable.

    http://www.monarch-tutorials.org/week14springimage.jpg

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 955 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    Just watched Campbells interview with the shyster, huckster, sham Ken Ring.

    Great quote in there too when the teacher who listens to him says "I'm a teacher, I'm not a nutter". Oh dear.......And good to see Richie McCaw being brought in as a reference for Kenny in lieu of qualifications, Oh dear.....

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1459 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Robyn Gallagher,

    Why not a transparent Cathedral spire?
    Tempered glass and a wholly holy view?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    It’s beginning to boggle…..

    For me it was back at

    Poor people, poor housing, distinct lack of resourcing. A lot of people who were about to get kicked in the crotch by Welfare Reform anyway.

    And I am beginning to understand the opportunists out there who are being labelled looters. A bigger picture (thank you Emma) suggests that one may be desperate for the likes of power or toilets or transport seeing as no body has bothered with certain suburbs since the last earthquake. I expect my family in Papanui is doing okay already. Linwood, not so much.
    I just hope one of these "looters" stands up in court and explains to the Judge that they were actually desperate.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 5744 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Jolisa,

    +24 Jolisa! (Or whatever the plusage currently is - I'm just back in Big O, and reading through the threads...)

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Islander,

    That sounds beautiful. What good taste you have Islander :) Did you know you have mail?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 5744 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    I just hope one of these "looters" stands up in court and explains to the Judge that they were actually desperate.

    Taking food to feed a family is one thing. But I doubt those two skinheads will have much luck persuading anyone they 'needed' three generators that were powering phonecalls in the immediate aftermath. Rather lucky to have been denied bail, probably.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15769 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Absolutely Steve B - there are way many more casualties than the projected 300+.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    I have? O cool!
    I'll get write on't!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Sacha,

    Yes Sacha, I don't like thieving either, but I am prepared to look at what is already a bigger picture. Single out the long haired skinhead with his short haired mate.Skinheads I used to know didn't have hair. I want to imagine that they would have not tried to pinch those generators if they had the power on. Who knows? I am just not going to assume they were greedy. Stupid maybe? Selfish?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 5744 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    If you really needed power and you didn't care what impact it had on others you might steal one generator. But three?

    People will probably judge the character of those fine upstanding citizens by the raised middle finger they so generously offered the court. So many others in Christchurch who deserve our sympathy more than those clowns.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15769 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Ross Mason,

    And good to see Richie McCaw being brought in as a reference for Kenny in lieu of qualifications, Oh dear…..

    The delicious irony is that Ring is apparently unaware that Richard Hugh McCaw does have a tertiary qualification: A B.Ag.Sc from Lincoln – which also gives him precisely zero credibility to mash up climatology, astronomy and seismology for pseudo-scientific fun and profit. Which may explain why McCaw's interview was all about his experience not some fanciful ballocks that is profoundly exploitative of desperate and frightened people.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11622 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Sacha,

    I'm not saying sympathy. Jeez, was just trying to understand the big picture here. I refuse to be narrow minded about this. I will not, however, be harsh on this city Christchurch and all it's people right now. There is and will be (I am sure) a lot of angry people emerging. Which, I think is a little understandable now that I have been enlightened earlier via the good old PAS.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 5744 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    Speaking of rebuilding, I just got back from a Fulbright conference in New Orleans (I have never been so glad to lay eyes on fellow Kiwis in my life, let me tell you) during which we toured the lower Ninth Ward, one of the most devastated areas of the city, to look at the work of the Make it Right foundation in building new homes.

    A couple of things about the tour struck me; firstly, how much of it was still empty, five and a half years on - just street after street of empty lots and bare concrete plinths where houses had been. That was less than encouraging. The second was learning about the foundation's policy of tracking down and offering homes to former residents who'd left after Katrina. They were trying to rebuild the community, not just the infrastructure. I certainly hope that we can see some of the same foresight - to build something unique, and new, and suited to the landscape, and to build it for the people who were there before.

    What I also hope, however, is that it's the government that displays that foresight - the Make it Right foundation is doing good things, but ultimately it exists because a celebrity took a liking to the place, and I think we can do better than that. We should do better than that.

    Amherst, MA • Since Nov 2006 • 2087 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    I've got no problem with a "looter" grabbing food to feed their family. I object to an idiot taking antique door knobs. They are indigestible. I do not condone sticking them in stocks but if there was a time to make examples of people - using the argument that deterence works and to give out a "this is not the right way to act" punishment - then this is such a time to throw the freaking book at them. As the judge said there was sufficient help at hand if they had asked for it or seeked it out. So there is no excuse. We haven't reached the "Lord of the Flies" island. Yet.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1459 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    I will not, however, be harsh on this city Christchurch and all it's people right now.

    Condemning looters is not being harsh to the rest of Christchurch's citizens. If anything, it's supporting them.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 15769 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Wasn't one of those convicted in the last few days a Pike River contractor (not looting, but something else)? Sounds like he needs major psychological help, not condemnation.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 1903 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Never mind, the point I obviously can't convey, was the information passed along with regard to the poorer suburbs being ignored from the last quake and how I could see where anger (finger gesture ?dunno) and desperation can occur.

    We haven’t reached the “Lord of the Flies” island. Yet.

    How long does that take?An example could be the 16 year old girl with the stupid face book page who stole an ice cream that she claimed was on a shop floor had a mother who realised she needed help not disowning (as she earlier was going to do) who I think had made it onto a shame register.Name and shame seems unfair to me. Are we going to end up with certain parts becoming ghetto like because they are shoved to the back of the relief queue? As has been said, suburbs are missing out since the first quake in September.

    then this is such a time to throw the freaking book at them.

    So, what, a cellmate perhaps? Hmmm...

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 5744 posts Report Reply

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