OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: PREFU 2011: "What credit downgrade?"

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  • Stephen Judd, in reply to David Cormack,

    they must genuinely believe what they are doing is right for the country.

    I'm prepared to accept that, for the most part. But I think they have very different ideas about what and who "the country" actually is compared to me. Eg, I think if you asked a National cabinet minister to write 10 imaginary biogs of typical citizens, their list would be whiter, less urban, more male, and better-heeled than mine.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2932 posts Report Reply

  • David Cormack,

    their list would be whiter, less urban, more male, and better-heeled than mine

    oh you could very well be right, but I just think we could dial back the rage and hatred a tad, they aren’t trying to hurt you.

    edit intentionally

    Suburbia, Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 216 posts Report Reply

  • Jonty,

    <quote>It was a good start, but today, by promising pain in the next term ... English showed he might actually be committed to reducing the debt, rather than just promising that future Governments will do it.>
    ... by selling off state assets?

    Katikati • Since Mar 2007 • 100 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to David Cormack,

    . . . I just think we could dial back the rage and hatred a tad, they aren’t trying to hurt you.

    Just because they happen to place ensuring one another's second pension above any concept of the public good doesn't mean that they don't dream of rainbows 'n unicorns.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 3354 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd, in reply to David Cormack,

    they aren’t trying to hurt you.

    If they're trying to do something that hurts me, and are immune to feedback, why not be enraged? ANGER IS AN ENERGY.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2932 posts Report Reply

  • Stewart,

    Not sure about dialling back my rage and hatred - it's about all I have that these bastards don't want to take from me & give to their rich mates.

    Governing for the good of all NZers rather than the already fiscally-advantaged would be a nice gesture that might prompt me dialling it back a bit...

    Te Ika A Maui - Waitakere… • Since Oct 2008 • 562 posts Report Reply

  • Jonty,

    To think ... if McDonald's penalty kick had been a couple of feet to the right, Key would have been sunk. The blame for the loss, not to mention the huge expense to the taxpayer, would have fallen on his shoulders. As it is, it looks like our power companies will be in Chinese hands before we can say 'mum and dad investors'.

    Katikati • Since Mar 2007 • 100 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Stewart,

    Is there some hot key where you can just insert political cant tailored to how you dress your ideological dick? I believe this is the point where I should respond with fatuous cant about how you're just engaged in the "politics of envy" but frankly can't be arsed.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11854 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to David Cormack,

    they must genuinely believe what they are doing is right for the country

    Maybe. It is entirely possible that some of the politicians are deceitful selfish scum who are happy to feather their own nests and those of their friends at the cost of the country's wealth.

    But in the main I agree with you. For the most part they genuinely believe in trickle down economics and the purity of the free market to provide growth and hence wealth for the country.

    Personally I don't believe that things that have failed to work in other countries will somehow magically work in NZ. But we will get to see in 2014/2015 when either they will be proven right and all will be well with NZ or they will have been proven wrong and I will be thankful that my mortgage is paid off.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3253 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Finance Minister Bill English said he still expected the "tax switch" to be revenue-neutral over a period of four or five years, and in any case it was primarily about shifting incentives towards more saving and investing, and less spending and borrowing for property speculation.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10758397

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to David Cormack,

    the rage and hatred

    Really? You think this is us raging?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3253 posts Report Reply

  • Keith Ng, in reply to George Darroch,

    You and I wish for very different things. They’re going to expend that political capital by cutting basic services that have large positive externalities, so that some rich [insert derisory term here] with a view of the water can build a larger swimming pool.

    For better or worse, they have a democratic mandate to cut taxes for the rich, cut the public service and enact punitive measures against beneficiaries. They don't have a democratic mandate to bound future generations with debt, in the sense that future generations have not voted for them. That's why I see the former as legitimate, but not the latter. And sure, the former is not desirable, and there are better ways to do it, but it's an undesirable but legitimate means to avoid an illegitimate end.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 530 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    You think this is us raging?

    Its hard to rage against the government, because they haven't really done anything. They've carried on with the centrist, boring, politcally neutral, poll driven theme of the Clark Labour years. NZers are proven to like it and failing a big economic upheaval will probably continue to back the theme.

    As Keith points out, in 2008 they did make some commitments to lower the rate at which spending increases in the 2012 - 2014 period and now we've reached that future point. Now we'll see what they will do, if they'll do something right-wingish or do something centrist or procrastinate some more by making promises of even bigger cuts in future spending in 2016 - 2018. Who knows?

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Keith Ng, in reply to merc,

    Finance Minister Bill English said he still expected the "tax switch" to be revenue-neutral over a period of four or five years

    And you know what? I can't prove him wrong.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 530 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Keith Ng,

    I know, me either.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • linger,

    But nor can anyone prove English right.

    English can “expect” all he likes – but, given the lack of any reliable evidence base, why should anyone else believe him?

    Me, I have no faith in faith-based government.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 870 posts Report Reply

  • Stewart, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Is there some hot key where you can just insert political cant tailored to how you dress your ideological dick? I believe this is the point where I should respond with fatuous cant about how you're just engaged in the "politics of envy" but frankly can't be arsed.

    Craig, you know nothing about my circumstances so any remark about 'politics of envy' is pure crap and speculation. I was responding with truth about how your lickspittle National Party doles out tax cuts that disproportionally advantage the rich and then use the financial result of that to excuse the cutting of services for those in our society that can least afford to have such cuts applied.

    Forgive my concern for the least advantaged in our society and my dislike of those perpertating this situation - or at least give me the grace that you so readily apply to those whose dicks are dressed in a manner of which you approve.

    Te Ika A Maui - Waitakere… • Since Oct 2008 • 562 posts Report Reply

  • Stewart,

    Sorry... high horse a bit higher than expected. Got a bit dizzy up there...

    Te Ika A Maui - Waitakere… • Since Oct 2008 • 562 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Stewart,

    Craig, you know nothing about my circumstances so any remark about ‘politics of envy’ is pure crap and speculation

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11854 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Stewart,

    Craig, you know nothing about my circumstances so any remark about ‘politics of envy’ is pure crap and speculation

    Stuart. Take those rage goggles off and re-read what I said. You might also want to take your own bloody advice because 1) you've done sweet F.A. to convince me to stop voting National and 2) you picked a really bad year to patronize me as some twatcock whose only purpose in life is the fuck the poor. Epically bad timing.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11854 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    you’ve done sweet F.A. to convince me to stop voting National

    They proposed and voted for outrageous Canterbury earthquake legislation.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2990 posts Report Reply

  • Stewart, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    FFS Craig, I was not making any insinuation or statement about your 'purpose in life' and I can't see how you got that from what I wrote.
    I wouldn't presume to try to convince you to vote in any way - so that part of your railing against my 'bloody advice' can be put to bed straight away.
    And what is this b/s about me picking a bad year and it being epically bad timing? Am I meant to have some omniscient sense of when things are going wrong in your life? I'm not the stalker you think I am

    And find enough manners to spell my name correctly, would you?

    Te Ika A Maui - Waitakere… • Since Oct 2008 • 562 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    ANGER IS AN ENERGY.

    Inevitably.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3624 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    For the most part they genuinely believe in trickle down economics and the purity of the free market to provide growth and hence wealth for the country.

    Personally I don't believe that things that have failed to work in other countries will somehow magically work in NZ.

    Verily, no amount of evidence will shake their faith in them beans.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16421 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Angus Robertson,

    Its hard to rage against the government, because they haven't really done anything.

    How's that line been working for the opposition?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16421 posts Report Reply

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