Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Moron y Moron

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  • andrew llewellyn,

    Best thread title of the week (so far).

    Since Nov 2006 • 2073 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Does this really, as a number of commentators have been keen to suggest, undermine the key messages of the campaign?

    No it doesn't, but (IMO) it sure undermines the credibility of certain parties and media folks who want to pontificate on the subject of family violence in future.

    And am I the only person who is sick to death of hearing how horribly 'provoked' Mallard was - especially when it's framed as "there's no excuse for what he did but..." If you actually believe the first part of that sentence, then that's the point you STFU. I've heard this crap all too often from thugs and bullies (and their inevitable enablers) all too often to have any sympathy whatsoever.

    And he's been 'humiliated'? So he should be - but let's also remember what's NOT happened. He's probably going to be demoted, not removed from Cabinet, let thrown out of Parliament. He's not going to face any criminal charges, or even a slap over the wrist with a wet order paper from the Privileges Committee.

    I'd respectully suggest most of us wouldn't get off quite so lightly if we got into a fistfight in the workplace.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11783 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    The immediate romanticising of Iti and the rest of his lawless mob by the left is almost embarassing. Never let the facts get in the way of a good bit matyrdom by the state, especially if it come wrapped in all sorts of mystical children of the mist bullshit. Most people who do a bit of hunting or shooting in those part of the Urewera where Tame and co run around playing at freedom fighters will tell endless anecdotal stories of the general lawlessness and lack of order in the Eastern Bay of Plenty .

    Clearly, the police simply grew tired of the challenge to their power to enforce law and order and resolved to teach Tame and co a lesson they won't forget. As the state agency charged with the maintaining not just law but also order they are entirely operating within their responsibilities in doing so. At best, Tame Iti and co are simply alienated absurb fantisists and wannabe gangsters who doesn't deserve the ideological raiment the left is bestowing on them. At worst, they were finally girding themselves to actually carry out some kind of Weathermen type campaign of terror against New Zealanders. Either way, as far I am concerned they got their just desserts.

    As for Mallard vs. Henare - grabbing Mallards tie constitutes the first assault, so no wonder the National Party is quiet on the issue. But as a pair of grown men, they made themselve both look foolish and Trevor Mallard was right to eat humble pie and apologise. Henare, he of the sunglasses clad "tight five", appears to have learnt nothing.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1740 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Was there a trial and a verdict and I missed it, Tom?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2917 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    "Mother reported for smacking child's hand"
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10472554

    This family needs help & I'm a little unhappy CYF are seen as kiddy police and not social workers who are positioned to help her with a few anger issues described as "heat of the moment". Aren't they a support agency?

    The article shows the cycle of violence (Mum hits kid & kid hits another kid) but to describe a child as evil - oh f*ck.

    SST has the same story here "School dobs mum to CYF for hand smack"
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sundaystartimes/4252968a6005.html

    When even your friends think your over the top - seek help

    "My friend is loud, there's a lot of volume. She's just excitable. I think she's a great mum, and she really loves her children. She's consistent but she's not over the top with discipline at all."

    And this was the best Family First could come up with - use her as media fodder.

    "The mother then contacted Family First, a lobby group that vociferously opposed smacking law changes passed in June. The organisation put her in touch with the Sunday Star-Times."

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • kowhai montgomery,

    Never let the facts get in the way

    We don't know the facts. But don't let that stop your nicely paragraphed little wrap-up of events.

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 485 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    I was out at The Checks the night before. They were great -- and I actually think Sven is one of the better guitarists I've ever heard.

    Faaaaaaack the Checks were choice. I had such a bloody good time that it wiped me out till Saturday afternoon. And when I came to write about it, it was the first time that I had the "dancing about architecture" problem with writing about music: words were not enough to describe their awesomeness. But I gave it a crack, anyway.

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1842 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    And am I the only person who is sick to death of hearing how horribly 'provoked' Mallard was - especially when it's framed as "there's no excuse for what he did but..." If you actually believe the first part of that sentence, then that's the point you STFU. I've heard this crap all too often from thugs and bullies (and their inevitable enablers) all too often to have any sympathy whatsoever.

    I will agree that verbal provocation is no excuse for violence, but by most accounts, Henare grabbed Mallard by the tie. That still doesn't make Mallard any less of an idiot for starting a fistfight. It does mean that he wasn't the one who got physical first. I think there are few people who would be able to restrain themselves from some sort of physical reaction if someone grabbed them by the tie.

    Amherst, MA • Since Nov 2006 • 2092 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    And he's been 'humiliated'? So he should be - but let's also remember what's NOT happened. He's probably going to be demoted, not removed from Cabinet, let thrown out of Parliament. He's not going to face any criminal charges ...

    Well, Tau could always choose to lay a complaint of assault and take his chances. It doesn't look to me like something that should be cluttering up the courts.

    I'd respectully suggest most of us wouldn't get off quite so lightly if we got into a fistfight in the workplace.

    I'm sure it happens, and that it is dealt with in ways judged by management to be appropriate. This is the only case I'm aware of of someone being summarily dismissed under the ERA:

    A woman, who was sacked for allegedly going to a colleague's house and beating her up, has lost her claim of unjustified dismissal.

    Donna Maree Tauhore, who worked at Farmers department store in Masterton, took her case to the Employment Relations Authority after her dismissal in 2005.

    She had been accused of telling her boss she needed to go home to change her clothes, and instead going to her co-worker's house and hitting her repeatedly in the head, in a dispute over a man.

    The following day the co-worker received a text message from Ms Tauhore which began: "You're lucky I don't come round there and smash you good and proper bitch..."

    At a disciplinary meeting with her employer, Ms Tauhore said she did not attack her workmate and she was later found not guilty in a District Court trial of assault.

    Nonetheless Ms Tauhore was fired for seriously breaching work rules, including not committing violence or threats of violence against fellow workers.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18509 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I think there are few people who would be able to restrain themselves from some sort of physical reaction if someone grabbed them by the tie.

    Going to call theatre on that, Lucy - because I think a certain degree of scepticism is in order about the sources of "most accounts". Anyway, one 'physical reaction' to someone getting in your face like that (assuming the allegation is true) is to detach yourself and walk away, not stage a confrontation. And I'm speaking as someone who has had to learn to check a pretty vile temper just to stay functional.

    Again, I'm just not interested in excuses - because I've never come across a bully who couldn't rationalise everything.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11783 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Robyn:

    Faaaaaaack the Checks were choice. I had such a bloody good time that it wiped me out till Saturday afternoon. And when I came to write about it, it was the first time that I had the "dancing about architecture" problem with writing about music: words were not enough to describe their awesomeness. But I gave it a crack, anyway

    Nice. I thought the same as you on this one:

    Actually, make me wonder what sort of songs the Checks are going to be writing when they’ve got a bit older and had their hearts broken, broken hearts and just lived life a bit more. I can’t wait to hear the sort of music they’ll be making in 10 years time.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18509 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Going to call theatre on that, Lucy - because I think a certain degree of scepticism is in order about the sources of "most accounts".

    Oh, alright then: "Eyewitness accounts related to Dominion Post reporters." Given that you weren't there and didn't speak to witnesses, it seems a bit harsh to be questioning the word of those who did.

    Anyway, one 'physical reaction' to someone getting in your face like that (assuming the allegation is true) is to detach yourself and walk away, not stage a confrontation.

    Of course. I believe Mr Mallard said something of the kind:

    "Clearly hitting someone is something that no one - especially a minister - should do. I'm incredibly sorry I did it," he told reporters.

    "It doesn't matter what he did or said, I shouldn't have retaliated, it was absolutely wrong."

    Henare was a plonker. Mallard was an even bigger plonker.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18509 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    but this is either hysteria or cynical politicking.

    I don't think this is cynical, and I find that more troubling. We've all gone down a rather long and often fraught road with Treaty issues. Now we have talk of separatism. I can't see that helping much. And the Maori Party just look a bit scary. But it may not pay off for them, hard to say.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Well, Tau could always choose to lay a complaint of assault and take his chances. It doesn't look to me like something that should be cluttering up the courts.

    Agree with you on the last part - but it would be a matter for the Privileges Committee. After all, if brawling in the lobby isn't a matter of privilege you've got to wonder what is.

    Oh, and I should make something quite clear. While Mallard is a nasty prick, and being a believer in the notion of karma, I'm not buying into the notion he's 'getting what he deserves' either. Still, might be room to contemplate the school yard maxim that if you can't take it back, you shouldn't dish it out. Of course, it's preferably that nobody is dishing "it" out in the first place - but I'm not naive enough to think the proxy attack dogs in the House will be muzzled any time soon.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11783 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Turns out, it's available here, at Kiwi Concerts.

    Damn that's a good link. I'm going to have to restrain myself until I get home and on my own internet coin now.

    Henare was a plonker. Mallard was an even bigger plonker.

    I'm going to return to my belief that we'd all be better served if the youth parliament ran the country for 364 days of the year, and we let all the morons that you've mentioned Russell in for one day for the above entertainment.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6147 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Foreshore & Seabed Act is seperatisim & racist that allows pakeha blue water title (pre 1840) or yauht clubs to continue.
    Being reactive to racist law and then blamed for seperatisim is wrong & partisan.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Russell: Fair call. I didn't mean to imply that the DomPost fabricates quotes, or the sources for this story were lying. As they say in the House, I withdraw and apologise - and I actually mean it. :)

    My point, not well made, is that I've seen enough fights where one person says "the prick grabbed me" and the other says "I was just trying to get the psycho to back off" and I'd be damned if I knew who was right.

    Guess we're never really going to know, because I suspect both Mallard and Henare are under strict instructions to keep quiet, and if they do say anything it would be no surprise if they tried to give their account a spin most favourable to them.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 11783 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    "Mother reported for smacking child's hand"

    I feel the need to go gloat at Family First and other pro-smacking campaigners. Having argued about 20 times earlier this year that the following would happen:

    1. Parent smacks child.
    2. Person complains about parent smacking child.
    3. Police investigate.
    4. Police decide to do nothing further, as they do with hundreds of incidents every day.

    Now it happens, and contrary to what pro-smacking campaigners have been bleating about, the woman wasn't turned into a criminal as she struggled with an incident that thousands of parents face every day. STFU already.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6147 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    __Turns out, it's available here, at Kiwi Concerts.__

    Damn that's a good link. I'm going to have to restrain myself until I get home and on my own internet coin now.

    But isn't being a Public Address reader all about the boss's bandwidth?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18509 posts Report Reply

  • WH,

    I'd wager that a significant proportion of the population think more of Mallard now than they did before. Admittedly he is starting from a low base. I always thought Mallard was a muppet, but now I sorta feel bad for the guy.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/16/newsid_4098000/4098929.stm

    Since Nov 2006 • 553 posts Report Reply

  • Margaret B,

    I found the Sunday interview and piece very frustrating. I was visiting my parents at the time and they seemed to share this frustration, despite being politically rather, ahem, different, from me.

    The interviewer appeared to be asking radical questions to prompt radical responses, and I actually thought Kruger was being remarkably restrained in reply. Even me ol' Dad, who is no friend of Maori activists, noticed this. It was a terrible interview, and while Kruger's responses were frustratingly vague, I felt that a lot of that came from the obvious intention from the makers to create a segment full of tension and conflict. Kruger was trying to avoid that, I felt, whilst not backing down from exposing the injustices he wanted to highlight.

    Was it really necessary for Sunday to show endless shots of haka and so on and lay the sound of gunshots over the top? The footage of kids shooting at clay pigeons was supposed to be chilling, but really just showed that they weren't very good shots. I used to go on camps where rifle shooting was a standard activity, but I guess that was white kids so that was ok.

    Since Oct 2007 • 59 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    I'd wager that a significant proportion of the population think more of Mallard now than they did before.

    That's because I'll wager a fair slice of the population has felt (and suppressed) the urge, at some time or another, to smack a politician upside the head.

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 832 posts Report Reply

  • Malcolm,

    The report I saw on TV news said Mallard punched Henare three times and had to be pulled off him when he had Henare on the ground and was choking him. (If memory serves.)

    I'm amazed that some people are treating that so lightly, or are willing to play it down. It is a very different matter from a single angry punch, or from the situation with John Prescott. As reported, it is very violent and sustained attack.

    The TV report could be wrong, although I'm not aware of anybody contesting that account yet.

    Since Apr 2007 • 66 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I wouldn't be quite as soft on Kruger as that. He didn't have to say those things, and I think he was quite enjoying his own rhetoric.

    But yes, the interview was inadequate. We were shouting at the TV for Sinclair to ask a question like "What exactly are Tuhoe's demands?" or "How would you see Tuhoe nationalism working in practice?" or "What beliefs and philosophies do you see as being under threat? Who is threatening them? What means short of violence could Tuhoe take to protect its heritage?"

    The irony is that Kruger's a joiner: he's on the BOP district health board and has done some great work in education and on reports commissioned by MAF. I really wonder what he was thinking.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18509 posts Report Reply

  • Margaret B,

    I agree Russell that my comment is a bit soft on Kruger, and you are right that he was certainly enjoying his own rhetoric. I definitely got a sense that he was enjoying himself in an odd way.

    In the bit you quote in your original post Kruger referred to rising up, in response to a question about violence, which I found very telling. To me the words "rise up" have many meanings beyond (or should I say before) armed insurrection. The history of Maori attempts to seek redress for wrongs is not littered with violence initiated by them, but more commonly by genuine attempts at justice through the systems established by the state, eg the courts, the Waitangi Tribunal, to the point of quite extreme patience. When I heard Kruger say "rise up" I wished that he had been more explicit about the different forms of opposition he might have been thinking of.

    Since Oct 2007 • 59 posts Report Reply

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