Hard News: A Full Sense of Nationhood
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Craig, whatever you say in other threads about turning in your toaster oven I defy you to dance like that.
No you don't... I can just manage a box step that doesn't constitute G.B.H. on my foolish victim... I mean, dance partner, but that's it. Seriously, I'm talking real "epileptic possum caught in a strobe light" moves.
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At Kai Tahu & other hui, I never bow my head for spoken prayers, nor do I join in with any hymn. I refuse to contribute to any religious service, but I am polite about it. I am an atheist, but an unostentacious atheist (unless you're knocking on my door to proselytise.)
Coupla points: karakia, like atua, is a word taken over by missionaries. It has come to mean 'prayer' almost exclusively -but it also means incantation/word offering and a set of behaviours without which a lot of karakia wouldnt/dont 'work.' ('atua' meant an active potency/power.)
I spent Waitaki Day with my mother - really good food(last of the cherries! Paua fritters! Smoked roe!Silverbeet from Mary's garden! Baby kumara!) and South Island wine and too-hot weather. Rest of
the whanau were somewhat dispersed. but we talked & sang (courtesy 'net & 'phone.)
Normally, I have fireworks & a hangi at home, and raise the flag/s- but Oamaru isnt quite open to that... -
Is Kiwiblog broken for everyone else, or just me?
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Is Kiwiblog broken for everyone else, or just me?
Dunno, but I can tell you it has long since broken my... nevermind, it doesn't translate. Carry on.
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Horrific though it is to contemplate the thought that the swilling, pullulating festival of munterhood that is the Sevens is an authentic cultural moment, I fear that it may be just that.
Seems almost callous not to link to Robyn's post on this very topic.
Mikaere, Stephen: thanks.
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Is Kiwiblog broken for everyone else, or just me?
That's quite surreal. View Source, that's fun too. Is it weird that it almost seems to make more sense like that?
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Is Kiwiblog broken for everyone else, or just me?
MUST! RESIST! OBVIOUS! SNARK!
Yeah, I see a lot of binary crap too. I suspect evil hackers.
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Enjoyed today's post Russell, and enjoyed your longer post on the previous page Stephen, good stuff.
Sorry to keep bleating about this Russel, but the podcast isn't up either....
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In a lot of community meetings I attend, the words at the beginning and end, are sometimes in Maori and are karakia, but on other occasions are prayers. In some instances they are quite evangelical, by my standards anyway.
This seems to me to be religion by stealth.
I have seen neutral reflections used, and they seem to focus the groups attention.
On another tack, I was somewhat surprised that John Key made no attempt to use Maori at Waitangi. In this day and age most people can at least manage tea koutou, tena koutou, tena kotou katoa.
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I spent Waitangi Day morning at the Canterbury Museum with two good friends from Pt Chev, my almost-6 year old nephew and 3 year old niece, and their almost-6 year old son and 4 year old daughter.
We went to the Paua House and watched the movie about Fred and Myrtle, in the mini-cinema with the flight of buzzy bees on the wall, blown up versions of the Edmonds cook-book, and a silver fern made of white jandals.
We also stopped by the pre-European maori display (kids particularly interested in counting the number of fish the maori woman had caught) We also put foam bones on a moa skeleton in the Discovery Centre, so didn't do too badly in the "remember NZ history and culture" stakes.
I agree that tikanga maori is totally normal for kids, and that's extending to their parents and whanau.
We went to Classical Sparks the night before, The 3 year old pointed out to her brother "you did that!" when the Kapa Haka group came on. He was already grooving along, mimicking the Kapa Haka group and telling his assembled aunties and grandparents "I did that", referring to the Tai Tapu end of term concert, when everyone from new entrants up got involved.
Kids love Kapa Haka (There's a slogan for you).
Anyway, what's not to like, especially if you're a 6 year old boy? It's a normal part of school now, as are bilingual birthday songs.
My niece when taken to her pre school for her birthday was told by her mother that the children would sing her "Happy Birthday". She responded by asking her mother "do I sing Ra Whanau back to them?"
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To me, it's just a public holiday. Went to the bach with the family, swam, kayaked, walked, played with my son, waited on my wife and unborn child, caught up with old friends, drank half a beer, took advantage of an unfortunate who scheduled a TradeMe auction for midnight on Friday, lay under the stars and just generally felt really pleased with the world and NZ. Never thought of Waitangi once.
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Fantastic. Key's done damn well. I don't much like his politics, but I do respect the approach he has to people and Big Gay Out mightn't need his validation but it's bloody fantastic to see the PM just getting involved sans attitude.
And I think he was doing it out of just being a good sport rather than any political calculation. Whatever his flaws, Key likes people and wants to be liked.
I was back stage watching Key with Buffy and Bimbo, both taller than he, and both with very big hair. Key was stiff, apprehensive at first, 'chatting' with them. Then went really apprehensive when Buffy&Bimbo exhorted him into a very simple dance routine to the tune of a remixed "Over the Rainbow".
For the first half of the song he was stiff and tried to look 'Prime Minister'-ly. As anyone would in that situation - you could read it on his face "Fuck - I'm the PM - gotta look prim, proper and respectful'.
Then amazingly, you could see him think - ahh fuck it. Let's get into it. Which he did. At that point, people really cheered - it became not a situation of it's the PM on stage with Buffy&Bimbo, but it's a straight white male who's game enough to give it a go.
And good on him for doing so.
Mind, Goff was the better dancer when he did his piece later.
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Then amazingly, you could see him think - ahh fuck it. Let's get into it. Which he did. At that point, people really cheered
Ah. I heard that cheer on my way over. Thanks for the report, Christopher.
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Here's the thing; that 7's stuff? Well I've observed that there's the 7's game, and that's big.
But what's bigger is the time, energy, and effort people go to dress up. As pirates. Whales. The robot soliders from Star Wars. That funny orange man from the Electoral Office. And cross dress.
It's interesting how a rugger game has unwittingly given space to otherwise straight men to dress up, and a fair whack of them, in dresses of various shapes, sizes and colours. (Of course, the entire team has to do it, otherwise no-one will do it. Everyone experiences the same thing. Our egalitarinism rears its head)
Its as if the 7's (outside of the game) has become NZ's Mardi Gras.Where gender boundaries are blurred and who the fuck cares?
I think it's powerful. And fascinating to watch.
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Its as if the 7's (outside of the game) has become NZ's Mardi Gras.
And now it seems rude not to link to http://oppthumb.blogspot.com/2009/02/dont-stop-carnival.html!Denish Welch's take.
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Let's try again, shall we? Denis Welch's take.
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Is it within the bounds of possibility that respect and sensitivity is a two way street, especially in a context, like a work-related event where it's not actually easy for those who find it objectionable to absent themselves?
I see nuthin' but trouble further on down the line.
The best option is for those that want respect to court humility and question their beliefs. (For many an unthinkable option)
And those who show sensitivity to become more outspoken.
Sorry if the pill is bitter, but cant turn back the clock or stop people questioning.Only my opinion
Dobro Vece -
This just in! John Key at the BGO in full!
It's rather more than half way before he gets loose, but as Christopher said, he gets there in the end.
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Re: the Herald article, I like to think that many of the majority of New Zealanders who still refer to themselves as religious in Census forms have more generosity of spirit and plain commonsense than John Roughan appears to have. He's missing the point rather dramatically. A little pray, even with the best of intentions, won't sort out Waitangi even if it does make Roughan happy.
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John I'm Only Dancing -
Is Kiwiblog broken for everyone else, or just me?
Stop it, Russell. I'm trying to beta test the kinder, gentler 50% less bitchy me, and you're making it difficult. :)
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If multiculturalism had been thought of and put into practice, oohhh say 2000 yrs ago we might all be atheists now.
Oh but it was, you have just described Roman society pre Constantine and his conversion. The Romans persecuted xians and Jews because they were NOT multicultural. This interfered with the smooth running of the state since one of the functions of the various Emperor cults was to distribute free food to the Proles to keep them happy. By ostentatiously not taking part the children of the book (younger troublesome sibling not having been conceived yet) upset the multicultural status quo. So I think you would have been allowed to be atheist as long as you took part in all the multicultural fun regardless of your opinion of Jupiter or Trajan.
He is a bit out of favour now for being too verbose, but that was Gibbon's point in his Decline and Fall, that xianity had ruined and corrupted the Empire from within. That was why it was so controversial in Victorian times when God and the Empire were so intertwined. For a more accessible treatment of what might have happened if the Nazarene cult had been squashed try Robert Silverberg's Roma Eterna .
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For reference, no need to use horrible diaresis (umlauts) instead of macrons in HTML documents (and I don't know why so many university and govt web pages still seem to be incapable of getting it right):
Ā Ā ā ā
Ē Ē ē ē
Ī Ī ī ī
Ō Ō ō ō
Ū Ū ū ūWell, ok, it's not going to work if you're stuck with a ISO-8859-1 character set, but all the modern OSes support Unicode/UTF-8 (Windows since NT4 and by default in XP), Macs caught up with 10.2, and Linux is fine if you use TrueType or the DejaVu fonts (and plenty of others).
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Oh but it was, you have just described Roman society pre Constantine and his conversion
I was kind of meaning the modern day version of multiculturalism.
It was just a thought game. I didnt mean it seriously.
Tho' I liked Gibbons book when I read it many moons ago verbose or not.
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