Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Cabinet and the Reeferendum

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  • Joe Boden, in reply to andin,

    Haha snap
    My Thanks to Joe and Allison for that

    At about 10.30 this morning my office phone rang. It was Bob McKoskrie, and he was not in a good mood.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 87 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to Joe Boden,

    Haha Im sure. I just hope he learned something from the conversation. Though that does take a willingness to admit when you are mistaken in a belief and Im not sure he has that ability, but I dont know the man personally.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Young,

    FamF Alert. Ben Cort is one of the featured speakers at Family First’s Forum on the Family (sic) bigotfest. Here’s the blurb:

    "Ben Cort is from Colorado and is the author of Weed, Inc.: The Truth About the Pot Lobby, THC, and the Commercial Marijuana Industry, released in September 2017. His passion for recovery, prevention and harm reduction comes from his own struggle with substance abuse. Sober since June 15, 1996, Ben has been a part of the recovery community in almost every way imaginable – from a recipient to a provider to a spokesperson. Ben has a deep understanding of the issues and a personal motivation to see the harmful effects of drug and alcohol abuse minimised. Ben’s Ted-X talk in 2017, What commercialisation is doing to cannabis, has had more than 1.6 million views! Ben recently visited New Zealand, speaking to community leaders, politicians and media.

    TOPIC: An interview with Bob McCoskrie – What NZ Needs To Understand About The Marijuana Debate”

    Forum on the Family will be held at Sir Noel Robinson Conference Centre (behind the Vodafone Events Centre)
    770 Great South Rd, Wiri, Manukau 2104

    Time: Friday 5th July 8.45 am- 4.45 pm

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 566 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Boden, in reply to andin,

    Haha Im sure. I just hope he learned something from the conversation. Though that does take a willingness to admit when you are mistaken in a belief and Im not sure he has that ability, but I dont know the man personally.

    Based on the brief conversation I had with him, you may have better luck hoping for a unicorn. ;)

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 87 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Armstrong, in reply to Craig Young,

    In the interest of debate perhaps referring to your opponents as bigots is not helpful - about as unhelpful as Chlöe Swarbrick MP calling a twitter user a coward for voicing their point of view.

    New Zealand • Since Jan 2015 • 43 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Simon Armstrong,

    In the interest of debate perhaps referring to your opponents as bigots is not helpful – about as unhelpful as Chlöe Swarbrick MP calling a twitter user a coward for voicing their point of view.

    I agree. It’s a difficult project and not wise to get overly righteous about, Its a drug thats known to have wide ranging effects on social cohesion – positive and negative. Not as seriously as alcohol, but a heavy dope smoking can impact on not only on the but also on bystanders. Having a cannabis addict as a parent for example, might not be that great.

    Leave a bit of air space for people who don’t see how totally on to it, team legalise dope are. I wouldn’t be saying this if it was an ordinary humans rights issue. But it isn’t, its more like The legalisation – regulation and then deregulation of alcohol. You know, like the deregulation of point of sales advertising so that now its hard to teach children it’s dangerous substance. Ok, cannabis isn’t as dangerous as alcohol, and the regulation isn’t going to allow advertising, at this early stage in the game. please excuse me for having little faith in the same people who are in charge of regulations of that other legal drug!

    So humans rights (don’t criminalise people by keeping stupid laws) and public health – don’t bullshit about cannabis. It’s not going to people a better actors, but it might make a better audience. Am I wrong?

    All said I don't think criminalising people for using drugs (of any kind) is a rational thing to do.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Simon Armstrong,

    Chlöe Swarbrick MP calling a twitter user a coward for voicing their point of view

    Do you have a link for that?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Armstrong, in reply to Sacha,

    much later, I can only find the term cowardice which is I suppose attacking their argument rather than their manhood.


    It is pretty abrasive stuff https://twitter.com/_chloeswarbrick/status/1113967582736838658

    New Zealand • Since Jan 2015 • 43 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    She was responding to the New Conservatives' deputy leader. Her description is hardly inaccurate.

    Take some time to read their online output, which at the time of that tweet included people like David Moffett (he has since moved on). Bigotry is exactly what they embody, or worse, pander to.

    Swarbrick is out of line? Well, the leader of the National Party calls the Greens communist. And he wants to be Prime Minister.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1324 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Simon Armstrong,

    I noticed the tone in that Twitter flurry was a bit off when it happened. In essence, I get it about regulation, science and the sophisticated use of language. But this is a public referendum and emotions are going to play a big part in it all. Because we are human beings. There is going to be some intuition. Because we are human beings.

    Joe Boden, said based on good science that decriminalisation is his preference. I agree with him. I’m probably running more on gut instinct, and anecdotal experience. Chlöe Swarbrick MP, is trying to convince the public that she knows best, just because. And it’s her job to do that.

    I’m not convinced that regulation is the magic fix. It might be an intuitively elegant solution. It might add up on paper when overseas data is carefully crunched and smithed. And it might feel like a good idea. But it’s not the best idea, just because there are some possative early indications from North America. Regulation is probably most attractive to parts of our middle class demographic, who like the convenience of buying wine and beer from the supermarket. And who argued passionately for the rights of 18 year olds to get pissed.

    I’m saying keep an open mind. Also have a think about regulated heroin shooting gallery’s. How do y’all feel about that? Serious question!

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to simon g,

    Take some time to read their online output, which at the time of that tweet included people like David Moffett (he has since moved on). Bigotry is exactly what they embody, or worse, pander to.

    You not what,

    I’m finding it hard to take people seriously when they try to conduct political debates on Twitter. Especially when they are elected members of the New Zealand parliament.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Magic mushrooms get decriminalised. These are a better candidate for regulation if knowing whats in the dose, and mould control is the reason for not just decriminalising weed.

    Anyone who has experienced a magic mushroom trip. How would it feel to have food poisoning on top of that?

    There is something arse about face in these recreational drug liberalising times.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    And least we forget that alcohol prohibition wasn’t all just bad. It created the speakeasies, jazz and a whole chain of events that led to the civil rights movement and the Kennedys.

    I don't use drugs, but I do see shaded colour.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to steven crawford,

    alcohol prohibition wasn’t all just bad

    Those were all unintended consequences, that some worked out well was plain dumb luck. And Jazz was around before prohibition, it just gave musicians venues to play in, and paying jobs rather than street corners and a hat for 'donations'. There was little to no forethought in prohibition.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to andin,

    That’s all true, it was like a need jerk reaction. Remind me, why was alcohol prohibition introduced?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Attachment

    Hokonui Moonshine Museum. It’s a proud celebration of New Zealand criminals.

    Under eighteen year olds free entree.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Mikaere Curtis, in reply to steven crawford,

    Anyone who has experienced a magic mushroom trip. How would it feel to have food poisoning on top of that?

    Happened one time to a friend who got food poisoning from a cafe before. Obviously not a good time for anyone involved.

    I've never heard of anyone getting food poisoning from magic mushrooms themselves, either fresh or prepared. And I have friends who, back in the day, would collect hundreds of shrooms at a time and sell them. Never heard any complaints.

    They used to be legal in the UK, is there any research that suggests there were problems with that arrangement ?

    Tamaki Makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 528 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to steven crawford,

    Remind me, why was alcohol prohibition introduced?

    Puritanical zealotry, although to be fair to the dear christian ladies of the temperance leagues they had had a gutsful of the drunken males around that time getting a skinful and acting like entitled fuckheads, and beating up on women and children, one of many things.

    Tho' they had little patience for native Americans, slaves and their descendants numbing the reality of miserable lives with alcohol, so gave no thought to denying the one pleasure available to them.
    The USA has been a fucked up place for a while now, and shows no sign of getting away from being a revenue whore for the entitled mainly white male oligarchs who love a respectable front for their devious activities. I just hope Trump or similar doesnt get any more years than the two left to them until the next election.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to andin,

    Puritanical zealotry, although to be fair to the dear christian ladies of the temperance leagues they had had a gutsful of the drunken males around that time getting a skinful and acting like entitled fuckheads, and beating up on women and children, one of many things.

    Those where primitive times by comparison with how we behave now. The last gasp of that puritanical zealotry was snuffed out when the independent ALAC was replaced by HPA. These wowsers made a fuss when it happened. The dissolution of the Alcohol Advisory Council: a blow for public health

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    And because these medical academics don’t know how to party, that where way too serious.

    Of additional concern is the appointment of a leading alcohol industry figure, Katherine Rich, to the Board of the HPA. A former National Party MP, Rich is Chief Executive of the New Zealand Food and Grocery Council, a lobby group representing the food, tobacco and alcohol industries. Prime Minister Key’s assurance that Rich would be able to manage the conflict of interest in the performance of her role guiding the HPA was unconvincing given the well-documented tactics of the tobacco and alcohol industries to influence government policy, which include industry membership on the boards of public agencies. Key’s assurances have now been undermined by allegations that Rich paid for a smear campaign against health experts; allegations that have not been denied by Rich.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    New study from 2016 confirms: Three to five drinks a week are part of a heart-healthy lifestyle, scientists concluded. It goes on to say:

    "Three to five drinks a week are part of a heart-healthy lifestyle, scientists concluded."

    But it all comes with a sensible warning:

    ”’But alcohol can also cause higher blood pressure, so it’s best to drink moderate amounts relatively often.’’

    The same is true of all drugs in fact! I read on twitter recently, that pure heroin is physically harmless.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to steven crawford,

    Apart from Twitter basically being a synonym for “please cite source”, dosage matters. One molecule of anything isn’t going to spoil your day.

    Tangentially related: one of my Muslim students was worried about sourcing alcohol-free vinegar. By which she meant, guaranteed 0.00000% alcohol. Problem being that almost all commercially available vinegar has ethanol as an impurity (typically around 0.1%). The fact that this isn't enough to cause any physiological effect, and that some fruit on your grocer's shelf will have higher levels of alcohol, did not reassure her in the slightest. Religion trumps chemistry.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1889 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to linger,

    Apart from Twitter basically being a synonym for “please cite source”, dosage matters. One molecule of anything isn’t going to spoil your day.

    Yes well citing the grownup source went out the window since Donald Trump started tweeting total crap, and everyone started retweeting it.

    Another better way to say it instead of pure heroin is pharmaceutical grade. Which would mean the ability to administer it in a clinical setting. That would also mean backups like the antidote being at hand incase of overdose or allergic and reactions. In this scenario, heroin is very safe. Whats dangerous about heroin is the risk of addiction, which won’t do any physical damage. The damage from addiction would be more psychic.

    That article about the “latest study” I linked to on alcohol said that people who abstain from alcohol would die earlier that people who drink moderately. That article cites its source, but it still carries a high weighting of bullshit. Alcohol is poisons even in small doses.

    Religion trumping chemistry is also particularly unhealthy when people stop vaccinating children and they die. But it’s not just religion alone, Greenpeace exploited the religious fears in the Philippines in their campaign to undermine the GM golden rice project. Thats as bad as promoting anti-vacs IMHO, and much worse than being idealistically opposed to alcohol. It’s all a matter of perspective.

    It sounds like like the Muslim student might be a little bit complex. I don’t drink. Not because I’m religious, rather its for health reasons. I like to be healthy.

    I use the regulations to stay on my side of the fence. If the bottle says less than 1’5 percent alcohol, its not an alcoholic drink. I normally aim for “might contain up to .5 percent alcohol”.

    I take the same approach to heroin and cannabis. If the doctor doesn’t prescribe it I don’t use it. I am a simple man, lucky I guess.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4327 posts Report Reply

  • Moz, in reply to linger,

    Religion trumps chemistry

    Some people's religious views trump reality in general, to them that is the essence of faith.

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 1198 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    Driving down Ferry Rd was surprised by a giant family fist “saynopetodope” billboard ad: Cannabis has a Children’s Menu replete with pics of candy esp gummy bears. It seemed fundamentally dishonest – noone on the pro side supports selling dope to kids, or anything like that. Even where gummy bears have been sold (colerado?) they have not been sold to kids. Don’t suppose there’s anything one can do about it. I guess to avoid graffitti, it was really high … :)

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2091 posts Report Reply

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