Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Lost Men

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  • Dennis Frank, in reply to mark taslov,

    Mark, I gather that you have taken what I wrote quite personally. Since I didn't frame it so, I'm puzzled about that. I take the point that we all have attitudes and opinions deriving from our cultural niche & developmental trajectory, and I'm not aware of any bias against those I'm unfamiliar with.

    I realise it may be just a question of temperament, and some folk get more emotional about social commentary & political analysis than others. I'm considerably more dispassionate nowadays. I was extremely angry & hostile as I entered adulthood long ago. I've been in victim sub-groups - I understand how they generate beliefs that shape our world-view.

    So nowadays I accept that all we can really do is our best, to find common ground where possible, and build consensus on that. Human nature drives us to try and persuade others at times that our view is better than theirs - I try to avoid that but if it seems that I'm doing it then I must accept that others can misinterpret my intent in those instances. Best to then just agree to disagree rather than argue particular points, I feel. So I'll just offer the observation that the meeting of minds only happens when people are ready, willing and able, and the time is right for it.

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    Mark, I gather that you have taken what I wrote quite personally.

    Dennis, thanks for your response, I genuinely didn’t. I’ll readily admit – based on feedback I’ve received throughout the years – that despite my ambitions, I’m not particularly able when it comes to conveying my tone accurately in written form, I generally just tend to turn the volume up to eleven and hope something lands.

    For clarity; I see views like yours on this topic regularly, and simply put, as far as I’m concerned this is a form of gaslighting:

    I’m aware that younger generations in recent decades have tended to view and call anything they don’t like racist, so as to devalue it as a technical term. A symptom of collective brain death?

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Neil, in reply to Sacha,

    I’ve provided evidence which you choose to ignore.

    I’m not sure what you are arguing though, you mention « gendered violence » - are you arguing that there is a different pattern of violence based on gender or not?

    Since Nov 2016 • 324 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    Attachment

    Mark, I gather that you have taken what I wrote quite personally.

    On the other hand, what Neil has been writing I take very personally, because I’m acutely aware of how the type of absolutist gender binary agenda he’s pushing destroys lives. Our threshold for ‘evidence’ has sunk to extraordinarily low levels it seems.

    I can recognise the bias and follies all too well – a couple of week’s back he’d have had us believe Narcissistic Personality Disorder was the exclusive domain of Jami-Lee Ross or white males or that JLR was the only abuser or bed hopper in Parliament. Marama Davidson set things straight on the latter points and most research indicates that NPD affects something like 6% of the population i.e. about 200,000 New Zealanders.

    With regard to gender/sex, the barrow he’s pushing is very much the cisnormative soup du jour, a symptom of top down messaging which has long since and continues to dominate gender discourse in 2018 Aotearoa e.g. when the Prime Minister was asked on 19 January:

    Are you going to find out the baby’s gender?

    Without hesitation, nor attempt to correct the journalist she erased the lived reality of every trans person in the country (12:05) by promptly responding

    Ah we already know

    Because cis people by and large maintain that they do know the gender of babies and furthermore that sex and gender are to be conflated. So it wasn’t unusual that the PM chose to only "acknowledge those women" (11:45) who’d given birth before her rather than inclusively acknowledging everyone; the men and other gender minorities who’ve gone through similar.

    Similarly it wasn’t unusual that leading up to the birth the couple continued to entertain by indulging the media a number of times as to whether or not they’d revealed the baby’s sex – going to some substantive lengths to play up the importance of the sex – instead of making an attempt – in keeping with Labour policy of empowering and ensuring that ’Rainbow New Zealanders can live in safety and dignity’. of dismissing this salaciousness by acknowledging that genitals are an inadequate gauge for ascertaining gender, that the sexing of infants, the expectations and imposition which accompany this active engagement in fomenting cissexist ideology and assiduously maintaining cisnormative narratives causes harm for gender minorities, GNC and intersex people in the community.

    In the video, prior to the first punch, a girl calls out: “Are you a boy or a girl?” the victim responds: “Does it really matter?” “Yeah it does”, a girl says before the victim replies: “No, it doesn’t” then she is punched.

    So yeah Dennis, that’s the kind of stuff I take personally. Incidentally yesterday was intersex day of remembrance and solidarity as yet the Government of kindness or whatever continues to ignore the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child’s recommendations calling for an end to the colonial practice of Intersex Genital mutilation in New Zealand.

    • implement a child rights-based health care protocol for intersex children that guarantees the rights to bodily integrity and self-determination

    • investigate incidents of surgical and other medical treatment of intersex children without informed consent, and provide redress

    • educate professionals on biological and physical sexual diversity and consequences of unnecessary interventions on children

    • provide free access to surgical intervention and treatment related to their intersex condition for 16 to 18 year old intersex children

    It doesn't matter how many teachers or teachers assistants we've got if they're not teaching the truth.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    oops – some corrections needed in this paragraph:

    Likewise it wasn’t unusual that leading up to the birth the couple continued to entertain by indulging the media a number of times as to whether or not they’d revealed the baby’s sex – going to some substantive lengths to play up the importance of the sex – instead of making an attempt – in keeping with Labour policy of empowering and ensuring that ’Rainbow New Zealanders can live in safety and dignity’ – to dismiss this salaciousness by acknowledging that genitals are an inadequate gauge for ascertaining gender, and that the sexing of infants – the expectations and imposition which accompany this active engagement in fomenting cissexist ideology and assiduously maintaining cisnormative narratives – causes harm for gender minorities, GNC and intersex people in the community.

    In the video, prior to the first punch, a girl calls out: “Are you a boy or a girl?” the victim responds: “Does it really matter?” “Yeah it does”, a girl says before the victim replies: “No, it doesn’t” then she is punched.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Neil,

    I’ve provided evidence

    No, you have provided us with nothing but your reckons ever since this claim:

    Males do have a tendency to become obsessed, to hold grudges and to seek revenge. That’s genetics.

    If you want to come out with something like that, put some links where your mouth is. This is not a site where such an assertion is accepted just because you say so.

    Or expect nobody here to take you seriously. Your choice.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19633 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to mark taslov,

    To be honest, differentiating sex & gender is not something I've thought much about - although I see why it would be ultra-important for some. And a vital part of identity politics. My own relevant personal experience is merely having a strong sense of having been female in my incarnation prior to this one.

    Also, one of my astrologer friends from the eighties became an alternative therapist and she uses a hi-tech diagnostic system that supposedly reads relevant past lives as context for current life situations (along with more than a dozen various organic or biophysical functions). Yeah, as a physics graduate my sceptical side reserves judgment, but a lifetime of investigating alternative belief systems keeps my mind open. Anyway, on five different occasions in recent years it has referred to a different past incarnation as female - my friend says such a consistent pattern hasn't happened to any of her other clients. Various different foreign ethnic contexts in different periods of history. How it rationalised relevance was in each case quite illuminating, so my inner bullshit detector gave it cautious approval...

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    Again what astonishes me is how you buy into all that, yet when a Māori person calls Don Brash racist you discredit it as ‘brain death’.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    My own relevant personal experience is merely having a strong sense of having been female in my incarnation prior to this one.

    Are you just trying to be a dick, or do you really have no insight into how other people might feel about what you're saying.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4163 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to steven crawford,

    People will make of it what they will, Steven. Not my problem. What's your problem?? Have you no insight into the spiritual dimension of the world? Do you deny that it exists? Many do. Nothing wrong with that, of course...

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to mark taslov,

    Ah but I didn't actually do so. Read it again. Asserting something is vastly different than raising the question. You must be aware of that. Perhaps you were misrepresenting me inadvertently?? So easy to be seduced into subjective reactions and lose the connection with what folks are actually saying.

    The sociopathic tendency of leftists to demonise rightists via lying about what they say or believe is a blight on politics. To me it isn't just unethical, it's immoral. And I'm not even on the political right. Just prefer fairness for all.

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    Thanks for your response Dennis. The speciousness reminds me of a younger me on these boards – a bad habit fomented by an inability to publicly address certain aspects of my lived reality in local cyberspace due to fear motivated by trauma punctuated conditioning. A tendency I feel – with the patience and goodwill of the community here – I’ve largely managed to move beyond.

    As I said earlier – and I’m not straying from this – I see your discrediting of people calling Brash a racist as gaslighting – which – as I also said earlier – I have considerable experience of from all sorts of people – caregivers, teachers, journalists, you name it, cis folk stepping up to gaslight me is the story of my life.

    People feel entitled to set me straight on all manner of things related to who they think I am, or what I experience, to school me, humiliate me on what cissexism or transphobia is because they ’wrote a book about it’, to chastise me for using this pseudonym because they read it as male and they’re trans-misogynists whose feminism involves trying to correct trans folk with regards to who they think we are and should be. These are your heroes, community leaders, political movers and shakers, the establishment, the elite.

    I’m not talking about Dennis Frank on various New Zealand left wing websites – I’m talking about high profile celebrities who’ve gone out of their way to gaslight me about my experiences of sexual assault, or sexual violence; an Auckland Local Board member who retweeted cissexist material sexualising pubescent boys on Twitter, and who when informed about this, appended a disclaimer (about the cissexism) while continuing to disseminate the cissexist material sexualising pubescent boys; folk with a feminist ideology similar to Neil’s – prepared to go to similar lengths to protect it from being challenged by those with experiences it erases. Folk who third gender us when the prospect of us talking about non-heterosexual IPV we experience conflicts with heteronormative narratives and agendas.

    I’m talking about primary school teachers who tell our parents ’your kid’ll grow out of’ being trans, I’m talking about a rapist who implied they assaulted me because they thought i’m a NAZI. I’m talking about you and your false equivalence of with regard to reincarnation, neglecting that such a scenario would likely entail every single person – on good odds – having been reincarnated a female at one or multiple points rendering the entire strawperson moot to the equation. I’m talking about being chased around the house by my wife with a carving knife and having experienced IPV in this relationship for 7 years with nowhere to turn or escape to because the Government never came through with either its welfare reforms nor its rainbow policies nor the requisite progressiveness to even acknowledge these issues exist.

    When you’ve passed Gaslighting 301 and you’re onto the Post-Grad and you’re clear beyond a skerrick of uncertainty that the cavalry are not coming to the rescue.

    We all do it to some extent – every single one of us – at some time or another – we second guess others’ perceptions – generally relatively innocuously and other times with disastrous effect – and so when you get on the gaslight like this;

    I’m aware that younger generations in recent decades have tended to view and call anything they don’t like racist, so as to devalue it as a technical term. A symptom of collective brain death?

    Well you can call that what you want – justify it as you feel you need to – but I’m done with it – you don’t wanna show me nothing, but you’re telling me everything. I’m acutely aware even discussing this stuff how painful it is listening to “allies” waffle on – how white this site is – and how ultimately I’m just giving you oxygen when I should be – as the HRC suggests – giving nothing to racism.

    Don't @ me.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Neil, in reply to Sacha,

    If you want to come out with something like that, put some links where your mouth is.

    I have provided one link and referenced the Dunedin Longitudinal study whose finding on the genetics of male antisocial behaviour is relevant.

    If you feel that those two sources are problematic I’m interested to know why.

    There is also the daily evidence of males acting more aggressively than women. Which has been the case for a long period of our history and in by far the majority of societies.

    I’m surprised this is in any way controversial.

    Since Nov 2016 • 324 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Neil,

    Parts of your claim remaining somewhat controversial are that “holding grudges” and “seeking revenge” are not synonymous with “aggressive behaviour”, nor are they exclusively male preserves, nor do they form any part of the Dunedin Longitudinal study’s findings.
    Accepting that males do tend to show more aggressive behaviour on average than females – even there, the mechanism is still not exclusively genetic; it also is influenced by socialisation towards gendered patterns of behaviour (and learned behaviour will also be influenced by different cost/benefit results of aggressive behaviour for individuals with larger muscle bulk, which of course is gender-associated).

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1860 posts Report Reply

  • Neil, in reply to linger,

    the mechanism is still not exclusively genetic

    No it’s not and what aspects are are of course to be remedied by social action – which is what I would say liberal democracy is. Just that attempt to counter our worse nature.

    But what is considered to be socially caused has to an extent an underlying genetic component. Our social environment is other people who are influenced by their genes. Our emotions are a product of our brain structure that eveloved to enable us to live in groups.

    Obsession and revenge are common elements of male violence. There’s some evidence that this has a genetic component – linked to above. It’s not straight forward but any slight variance would throw up particular individuals in large populations. Many of the mass shootings in the US are by men with obsessive grudges. That they are so lethal is a product of the social environment – easy access to guns - with a social remedy.

    Since Nov 2016 • 324 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to linger,

    muscle bulk, which of course is gender-associated

    Not to dispute your wider point but just to keep things loosely inclusive, and not going full Labour Party on the issue, if I may correct:

    learned gendered behaviour will also be influenced by different cost/benefit results of aggressive behaviour for individuals with larger muscle bulk, which of course is sex-associated

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Neil,

    For those following at home, as citation for what’s being discussed MAOA: 5 common myths debunked (content warning – trans exclusionary):

    To sum everything up the interaction between genetics and behaviour is very, very complex to put it mildly. Whilst it is very easy to make bold statements such as “low MAO-A activity leads to increased aggressiveness”, a modern day of equivalent “of a pill for every ill”the reality is much less clear.

    Whilst there is definitely an association with the 2R, 3R and 5R forms of MAOA and increased aggression, the actual contribution of MAOA is unknown, but most likely low

    A few points at this juncture,

    1. this thread sure is living up to its headline.
    2. the shifting definitions in conflating ‘vengeful’ or ‘obsessive’ behaviour and then switching that to mean ‘aggressive’ behaviour is again what I’d describe as a form gaslighting.
    3. when sacha stated "I do not need anything further from you on the topic" and you continued @ing him – that’s a consent/boundary issue worth consideration.

    As Emma first responded to you:

    Social conditioning.

    Which ties in with both this from the link:

    The associations only appeared when a large enough population was studied, and this suggests that there are lots of other factors which are also influencing how aggressive we are, not just MAOA. Some studies have failed to find a link between MAOA and aggression

    and this:

    But! all these reports come with a very large caveat. Whilst they do show that the MAOA-L forms are associated with increased aggression, having an MAOA-L form does not mean that someone will be aggressive, there are numerous other factors associated, with the most important thought to be early life abuse

    For me what confirms the validity of Emma’s response is simply that the USA is an outlier in issues of this nature – there are evidently a number of contributing conditions to what is – at this point – a very American problem.

    Between 1983 to 2013, 119 mass shootings took place around the world. Sixty-six percent were in the U.S.

    I’ll also point out that a trend has emerged Neil where you seem comfortable outright ignoring the women on this thread – there’s nothing remotely novel about this tendency but worth pointing it out all the same.

    Coming back to your original point re: ‘vengeful’ or ‘obsessive’ behaviour- and bringing in findings from rainbow communities – which despite smaller cohorts function as controls for heteronormative assumptions, this is more relavant to what we may describe as ’vengeful’ or ‘obsessive’ behaviour’:

    it was hypothesized that homicide brutality will vary with the offender’s sexual orientation and gender, such that the percentage of killings coded as brutal will be higher for (a) gay and lesbian relative to heterosexual relations, (b) men relative to women, (c) gay relative to heterosexual men, and (d) lesbian relative to heterosexual women. The rates of intimate partner homicide were also hypothesized to vary with the gender of the partners, such that (a) homicide rates will be higher in gay relative to heterosexual and lesbian couples and (b) homicide rates will be lowest in lesbian couples. The results support all but one prediction derived from the two hypotheses. We predicted that men would kill their partners more brutally than would women, but the results indicate that the opposite is true.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to mark taslov,

    sex-associated

    Thanks! (I ran out of editing time, then figured "associated" was a sufficient hedge as it makes no claim of direct causation. But it's better to make it explicit.)

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1860 posts Report Reply

  • Neil, in reply to mark taslov,

    I’m surprised you haven’t accused me of weaponising comas.

    Going back to the original post, there are two examples given of Lost Men - Cesar Sayoc and Robert Bowers. Their behaviour could be described as obsessive, in that they spent a great deal of time and envergy on their preoccupations and revenge motivated in that they sort to get back at those who they thought were doing wrong.

    There’s a degree of compulsive fixation that leads them into a dark world and eventually to mass violence.

    Since Nov 2016 • 324 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    ...and then there is that other gender champion Karl du Fresne on his epic quest to turn 'role modelling' into 'virtue-signalling'...
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/108389098/entertaining-and-making-a-statement-about-gender-equality

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7848 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Neil,

    I’m surprised you haven’t accused me of weaponising comas.

    Surely 'comas' would be 'sleeper agents'
    or perhaps more 'cometary' than 'commentary'...?
    :- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7848 posts Report Reply

  • Neil, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    We watch TV dramas for entertainment, not to be morally improved or have our cultural sensitivity enhanced....At worst it conveys a faint but unsettling whiff of Stalinist-style totalitarianism, which used art to enforce ideological orthodoxy and ruthlessly suppressed anything that didn't conform.

    Pretty silly stuff from du Fresne. We tell stories for a variety of reasons and have to make them entertaining to keep peoples’ attention.

    Telling stories is a fascinating ability we have which relies on brain structure that evolved in order to tell stories. But I would think that.

    Since Nov 2016 • 324 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Sarah mentioning intersex, since the thread ventured there.

    Regards the demise of the American Man.

    The role of the military in forming gender ideals. More overt in the US, but here, every Anzac day theres a spike in patriotic honouring and reminiscing in the glory of the death of men as a corner stone of our national identity. Thats altruistic sacrificial death, granted. But remember this. Ruffly as many British solders who died in battle on the falklands, committed suicide not long after they returned to England.

    And yes, the military is not all men now.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4163 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Neil,

    sorry for the delay responding Neil i was awaiting some paperwork

    I’m surprised you haven’t accused me of weaponising comas.

    I’m relieved you’re familiar with the term as it may help you understand why was so upset by your weaponisation of both gender and mental illness recently. What was exacerbating for me was that as you began dismissing JLR’s medical professional’s diagnosis:

    in this case by claiming to be mentally ill.

    and reiterating your gender theories – in the same week as I began an ACC funded therapy regimen for sexual abuse (with a professional who incidentally specialises in NPD).

    This was a big step for me given my experiences growing up with an abusive friend whose mother was a psychiatrist. Due to those formative experience I have a long held distrust of the mental health system (hence waiting 20 years to seek further professional therapy).

    So we wasted Government funded therapy time discussing your claims as I plied his area of expertise attempted to verify how much of what you were saying about JLR might be accurate and how much was speculation – one thing I did glean was that those with NPD very rarely seek out therapy and even a cursory glance at JLR’s wikipedia page suggests he may have been seeking help for any number of issues.

    This was further compounded a few weeks later when you misgendered trans women in this thread – and ok it happens – my therapist has misgendered me on the odd occasion but again seeing someone who works in the field publicly engaging in that was highly confronting.

    As you were criticizing people ’smearing health professionals and doing a great disservice to mental health’ I was thinking of a good friend who was raped inside an acute patient unit, a psychiatrist who took me on as a patient despite a clear conflict of interest and an instance many years ago of being taken by police for psychological evaluation (though not sectioned) – knowing full well exactly how such a situation like that can be contrived – on top of your speculation – which strikes me as conflicting with a key precept of bioethics: Primum non nocere

    "first, to do no harm."

    These issues can be related back to both Sayoc and Bowers:

    "My son has been ill for a long time and my family and I have tried, over and over again, without success to urge him to get the help he needs,” she wrote. “We, in America, have a mental health crisis in this country and need to change laws to allow families to compel and require mental health treatment for those in need of such treatment before their illness worsens to where it is too late.”

    and in the case of Bowers:

    According to those law enforcement sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, officers responded to the potential suicide call and were able to talk Bowers out of killing himself. The same sources say Bowers agreed to voluntarily commit himself to a mental health clinic, but never followed through.

    Certainly I’m very wary of attributing their actions to mental health issues – that would be a terrible conclusion – but I don’t think it’s entirely untoward to suggest that their rejection of mental health care – likely based on distrust of the mental health system – certainly didn’t help matters, i.e. there is correlation.

    By the same token these recent contributions you’ve made have done nothing to enhance my trust for the mental health system – in fact what they’ve highlighted is the terrifying prospect that were I ever to be institutionalised I’d very likely be reduced to

    men who have transitioned to women

    rather than having my gender comprehensively affirmed. Which is not to single you out specifically Neil as much as to highlight that there are myriad reasons one might fear or distrust the safety of contemporary mental health services (both from inside the walls and beyond) and rather than trying to mitigate those worries by casting aspersions on them we need to be putting these issues under the microscope with due care.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Neil,

    [contd..]

    If I may expand on this a little, in late May 2017, new to twitter, I made the regrettable error of pointing out to a cis woman (which despite equivocations to the contrary is not a slur as much as a necessity of taxonomy, in the same way as the prefix endo- is not a slur in making the endosex/intersex distinction) on Twitter that the term 'male violence' is commonly employed as TERF dogwhistle against trans women - that's it.

    No sooner had I done so than another cis woman I vaguely knew DMed me to make a suggestion explaining me that the woman I'd interacted with was 'a good one' and 'not transphobic'. She's a trans ally, so I welcomed feedback and provided an explanation as to what I was getting at (quoting from a well known trans-feminist treatise).

    As that was happening the woman who I'd 'called out' (who is also a prominent local trans ally) DMed me this - a troubling admission to make to a trans woman, we've not spoken since. Meanwhile the woman I vaguely knew was telling me to take care - I was rattled, was it some kind of good cop/bad cop thing?

    As I spoke about oppositional-sexism in relation to representations of violence she was focused on discussing cis males and offered me the opportunity to write something on her blog which I refused - it's a bit of cliché IME: finding out we're trans and asking us to do mahi. If in doubt, and this is widely applicable; no means no.

    This is where things became distinctly uncomfortable, as she continued talking about cis male violence, again offering to let me write for her blog. Attempting to brush it off I said 'I'll think about it' and continued trying to clarify my point wrt oppositional-sexism - to which she reiterated her focus on cis males - understandable given she works with vulnerable women - but we were evidently talking past one another.

    A casual remark about transphobia in my family prompted her to ask about my transition (if in doubt, don't do this). I attempted to express my reluctance to answer and was informed I was making assumptions. Reassured that she didn't need to know anything I sidestepped the question only to be bombarded a couple of minutes later with her assumption - all guesswork on her part - incorrect - my explanations and an excerpt from the well known text minimised to me being "touchy".

    Many trans people will be familiar with this form of microaggression: 'you only think that because you're trans/closeted' of whatever - it's part and parcel of the unmarked/marked distinction - what she was saying wasn't applicable to my circumstances but when cornered I submit.

    I didn't sleep well that night - the next day I tried to correct these misapprehensions - this time dismissed as adversarial. We like stroppy women but only when they're on message. So I left it a couple of days and again tried to clarify my boundaries - I offered information which I'd rather not have provided, redirecting the conversation to intersectionality and the weaponisation of gender, once again I was asked to do mahi - again I had to sidestep but if in doubt - no really means NO. A couple of days later I realised this whole exchange had been a case of me doing mahi.

    I was exhausted and figured she'd grasped the basic gist of where I was coming from so beyond some follower recommendations we didn't speak for a month until I saw her boost one of those oppositional-sexist tweets and I blocked her.

    Feeling guilty about this abjugation of responsibility I unblocked to find out where things went wrong - it was then that I cottoned to the fact that there was some subtext I'd neglected. Fair enough, that was repugnant behaviour on my part. The repeated admission that I was trolling only exacerbating the harm caused. Fortunately our conversations are moving on from the ciscentric framing to some extent now.

    As to how she knew who I am on here? That's something I'd felt best to disclose during the brief introduction which had preceeded these interactions.

    Anyway, I thought that might be the beginning of a new phase - instead I was listening to myths about trans people. To anyone new to the topic, trans men have been having babies for eons, even from a trans medical perspective one of the oldest cases in popular memory dates back almost twenty years.

    She was very helpful at that point in crowdsourcing some information but essentially it was just the same old thing where I'm an angry trans woman, the only person bothered by the weaponisation of gender - which by then knew to be gaslighting having in the meantime encountered more trans people to whom this causes a great deal of anxiety.

    Anyway, we didn't have another proper private for a couple of months, and only then - ignoring that 'don't punch down' slogan - when things came to a head after she jumped onto a thread I was writing about decentering gender binary wrt sexual violence. More mahi. More invalidation.

    There was no further private communication for another 6 weeks until she retweeted another one of those pieces that erases female perps. I tried to put on a brave face but as far as I was concerned I was done, quickly thereafter disengaging, suffice to say we've not conversed since. I wasn't even so much troubled by the fact that she was once again dismissing loosely related CDC findings but more so by the fact that there's a thread on this site, in which she was a participant, and in which her friend briefly mentions a couple of incidents where on recollection she realised that her sexual partner had been obliging her (up to the point of recognition).

    A word to the wise; when someone is outlining intimate details of sexual assault, don't try to argue semantics and by no means make wise cracks to distract from the topic. Never #notall... an assault victim. 50% of trans people have experienced sexual assault and many trans women - in part due to our lack of credibility - have unaired experiences with predatory cis women.

    That should have been the end of it except that she then started winning awards and popping up on the TV. She has a gift for broadcasting what she doesn't want and encouraging people to own their shit - which is evidently easier said than done. It reminded me a lot of the experience I outlined above - where my high school best friend was fucking me and a few others over but was regarded as a hero by most - as the psychologist pointed out - with that disregard of consent and the repeated attempts to reframe my experience for me I've basically been reliving the sexual assaults with this situation.

    That would have been the end of it as far as I was concerned except that in January someone retweeted her solicitation to offer support to genderqueer people in DV relationships, and moreover that this was being endorsed by another high profile twitter personality who I had words with, showed some of these screen caps to and was dismissed with; "just disengage".

    What launched my anxiety into orbit was firstly that over all these conversations, in knowing from the outset that I was experiencing DV at home, this was the full extent of concern shown on the matter. Furthermore, her 'preoccupation with cis male toxicity' left me with the distinct impression that she's simply not equipped to handle these types of dicussions with most trans women (specifically) given the stats indicate that only about 20% of us are strictly heterosexual, but more so that 41% of us have 1 or more mental health issues (compared to 17% of the general population) and it feels like she just steamrolled over me.

    This is certainly not an isolated example - there are numerous cis people who centre themselves in Twitter trans discourse - they talk up their support for trans people considerably more than they boost trans voices - with the odd token exception. So we end up with the ridiculous situation where trans people expend energy correcting these widely disseminated errors (caution uncensored transphobic slur) by people who'd rather talk over us than listen.

    I fail to see the necessity for this type of ill-conceived messaging from an account ostensibly devoted to helping women in violent relationships and I'm certain it must be possible to do the same amount of good in the community without snooping into trans peoples' lives on Twitter.

    On that note she also had some reckons about JLR - only in her case she tried to work trans women into the fray - obviously oblivious to the sexuality stats above, and evidently in the dark wrt Building Rainbow communities free of partner and sexual violence (2016) which found members of the rainbow community experience IPV from both cis males and females at roughly equal rates.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

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