Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The miserable archive

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  • Russell Brown,

    We were talking about the Tenancy Tribunal making stuff up. Here it is, literally, from a real estate website.

    In certain cases, we have found one adjudicator of the opinion that any level of Methamphetamine contamination is too high, even if it is under the Ministry of Health guidelines. Adjudicator Hogan states in Tribunal order of Harris v Thomas Baseden Real Estate that "in my view, if the property is contaminated with methamphetamine, at any level, it is unclean and in breach of section 45(1)(a)." (provide the property in a reasonable state of cleanliness). In the same order, adjudicator Hogan states that a landlord should , as a matter of best practice, have a property tested at the commencement of a tenancy.

    Adjudicator Hogan's opinion is shared by Head Adjudicator Melissa Poole. Ms Poole confirmed the Tribunal stance that any level of Meth was too high even if it was under MOH Guidelines whilst she was speaking at the REINZ Conference in early August.

    So any level of meth, even below the MoH guidelines, represents unacceptable contamination? It's just bonkers. And it had real consequences.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22403 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Kevin McCready,

    When I appealed, guess who heard the appeal? The same guy who made the original decision. These people are a joke.

    That right there is an insta-fail on administrative law grounds.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1708 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Idiot Savant,

    That right there is an insta-fail on administrative law grounds.

    Wait till you hear about how they determine essentially criminal allegations on the balance of probabilities.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22403 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    so who appoints the 'judges' on these tribunals? who prosecutes? can tenants get legal aid?

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2575 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    so who appoints the ‘judges’ on these tribunals? who prosecutes? can tenants get legal aid?

    Tenants can only turn up with legal representation in certain circumstances, and many of the adjudicators are lay people.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22403 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Moz,

    Whether methamphetamine contamination in a dwelling is via use or manufacture the exposure risk is the same

    That’s technically true, but elides the crucial “for the same level of contamination

    That’s also bullshit. Methamphetamine is not the same as the bubling chemicals and gas, which are used to manufacture it. What your trying to say is that a traditional photograph is technicaly as dangerous as potassium ferrocyanide. Which it obviously isn’t. The cyanide can kill the photographer if they fuck it all up by adding the sulfuric acid at the wrong time. But the photograph it self isn’t going to have any halmfull residual cyanide.

    It’s all basic chemistry, that you’d think the ministry of health would be bothed to google up. But they obviously didn’t.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4004 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to steven crawford,

    The cyanide can kill the photographer if they fuck it all up by adding the sulfuric acid at the wrong time. But the photograph it self isn’t going to have any halmfull residual cyanide.

    I guess some people never really got over those primary school stories about the kids who died of lead poisoning after being jabbed with the lead of a pencil.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4570 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    We used to have a NZ Guidelines Group with a team of researchers highly skilled in analysing and grading scientific evidence. This whole saga shows why we need such an independent and skilled team in a public agency so the process cannot be captured by any interest group.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3138 posts Report Reply

  • Moz, in reply to steven crawford,

    “for the same level of contamination" ... That’s also bullshit. Methamphetamine is not the same as the bubling chemicals and gas, which are used to manufacture it.

    I'm not sure whether that's a reading comprehension fail or a political answer - you've responded to something I didn't say with a tangentially related diatribe. But sure, verbal me and rant, be my guest.

    "same level of contamination"... you can't get that by using different chemicals, that's not how contamination works.

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 1101 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Moz,

    you’ve responded to something I didn’t say with a tangentially related diatribe.

    Thank you Moz. It took some effort, and it's nice to see you appreciating the arts.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4004 posts Report Reply

  • FletcherB,

    Whether methamphetamine contamination in a dwelling is via use or manufacture the exposure risk is the same

    You can also (in a weasel way) read it as true if you take "exposure risk" to mean the risk that you might get exposed to it.. instead of the implied "the risk of health affects after exposure".

    West Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 881 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    We used to have a NZ Guidelines Group with a team of researchers highly skilled in analysing and grading scientific evidence. This whole saga shows why we need such an independent and skilled team in a public agency so the process cannot be captured by any interest group.

    Funnily enough, I have been reading the British Wreck Commissioner’s Inquiry report into the loss of the Titanic (because why? I have no real idea). As far back as 1887 a parliamentary committee chaired by none other than Sir Charles Beresford warned the 1855 regulations were inadequate in requirement for the provision of lifeboats.

    However, the Board of Trade was animated mainly by a spirit of light handed regulation, was completely captured by the shipping industry and had, by the 1880s, largely lost it’s expert members in favour of ceremonially appointed stooges of the establishment. And so it complacently ignored all the evidence in favour of self-regulation, refuted expert advice (including that of it’s own inspectors), and attacked it’s critics as Cassandras and trouble makers.

    Until one clear, freezing night in 1912…

    Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2193 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Spinoff has an excellent article
    Andrew Mckenzie HNZ and a lot of people at HNZ and on Tenancy tribunals should be in fear of losing their jobs over this. Rightly so

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1703 posts Report Reply

  • william blake, in reply to andin,

    God that's brutal, it outlines social engineering toward a class system which is not the old NZ way. Who's culture have we imported ,and why hasn't MPI stopped it at the border?

    Since Mar 2010 • 363 posts Report Reply

  • andin, in reply to william blake,

    The people involved have shut up and are using the johnkey tactic of hand waving it away, saying nothing to see here, move along please.
    They need to be made accountable.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1703 posts Report Reply

  • Worik Stanton,

    As reported by Radio New Zealand Andrew McKenzie was asked about a Deloitte report at select committee...

    ... the Deloitte report the agency commissioned last year.

    That report again told Housing New Zealand the guidelines were designed only for cleaning up meth labs and warned its eviction campaign was not based on a solid foundation of research or science.

    "Housing New Zealand spent $50,000 on a report from Deloittes. As I understand it that report told you that the standard you were using was not sound, and yet you continued to use the standard - is that right?"

    At the same committee meeting Andrew denied getting the advice from the Ministry of Health. I am not a journalist, but methinks that Deloitte report would be OIA'able....

    Otepoti • Since Nov 2007 • 31 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Worik Stanton,

    that Deloitte report

    Courtesy of Benedict Collins: dropbox pdf, 24 pages.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19481 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Andrew McKenzie needs to go for a start. He was/is earning $46000 a month . He is not morally fit to hold this job, judging by his behaviour

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1703 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens, in reply to william blake,

    God that’s brutal, it outlines social engineering toward a class system which is not the old NZ way. Who’s culture have we imported ,and why hasn’t MPI stopped it at the border?

    Something psychologically very, very dark happened during the John Key era.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2193 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    Something psychologically very, very dark happened during the John Key era.

    If it did, John Key was a symptom of it, rather than a cause. I just don't think he was anywhere near as influential as his fan club and his haterz made out. National's polling would appear to be almost completely decoupled from its leadership ATM. Labour's clearly is not, otherwise the Jacinda bounce is inexplicable, nor is the Cunliffe flop.

    Key was a surfer on the human wave. He rode it, but he did not cause the wave.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10530 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to BenWilson,

    Key was a surfer on the human wave. He rode it, but he did not cause the wave.

    I’ve heard him described as a pillow, that assumed the shape of the most resent person to sit on him.

    I think your right that he didn’t lead middle class New Zealand to become the state it now is. He wasn’t really much of a leader at all. As Russell once pointed out, he was more of a light entertainer. I think the reason we became gruel and selfish as a nation is partly the result of ordinary greed, which comes from things like Auckland house prices going thru the roof. The same thing is happening in other wealthy country’s. And the lack of appropriate leadership didn’t govern that in a way which left a safety net for the lower class. So the lower class went splat on the ground and the middle class freaked out and looked the other way. And held there hands over there children’s eyes.

    A moments silence please, for the ten thousand people who are locked in prison right now. Almost none of them are going to come out of that in good shape. And they will all have to start fighting for a place to live. That’s because we created a hypo-competitive housing market. And the ground rules for that where written up before John Key was known as the Devil. A capital gains tax was rejected by most of the people you see in the supermarket on College hill.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4004 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Key was a surfer on the human wave.

    Thats him 2nd from the right

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1703 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to andin,

    Thats him 2nd from the right

    Spooky, considering he'd have been barely 5 years old, though those reptilians really hit the ground running once they're out of the egg.

    BTW the Wall of Surf party outpolled the Communist League and Blokes' Liberation in the 1990 election, though there's been no suggested Key connection AFAIK.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4570 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Key was a surfer on the human wave.
    He rode it, but he did not cause the wave.

    Spooky indeed...
    He is after all merely a particle, but one that could seemingly pass through both slits - if you could observe him you wouldn't know what he was up to, but if you knew what he was up to you couldn't see him - and he could adopt many superpositions - he was everywhere and nowhere, baby!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7701 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    Theres one question I’d like to ask, but will never get an honest answer, from all those on the govt side during this debacle. They obviously mistakenly thought they were dealing with monkeys, the arrogance just drips off them.

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1703 posts Report Reply

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