Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak

183 Responses

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  • Che Tibby,

    totally agree. the four options provided were, without doubt, unmitigated cack.

    i also enjoyed the contrast between the Green and Labour approach, where one used it as an opportunity to try get one over on Key, and the other just ensured that the people got more choice...

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Andy Linton,

    I reckon your post gets it spot on. I'll be following the same plan.

    Wellington, NZ • Since Feb 2007 • 1 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    his support for any bill must be matched with a promise to stop criticising him and his process.

    Can I just say WTF?

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3886 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    I’ll vote for Red Peak in the first referendum – or more accurately, I intend to vote for it, before leaving the envelope at the bottom of a pile and only remembering where I left it the day after the poll closes. Or accidentally throwing it out with the junk mail.

    Anyway, congrats to the Greens. They did a smart thing, and got the win.

    ETA: According to Stuff reports, Labour are supporting the Greens and voting for Red Peak to be included. As I pointed out last week (because it was predictable), they have ended up following, not leading or opposing. Good that they are being smart now, better if they had been smarter earlier.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1291 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Smythe,

    Attachment

    Agreed Russell. The bureaucratic boffins will be every annoyed that their Teflon John has lost the plot and taken his eye off the Fern-Foisting ball! Yesterday's great distraction was probably a cunning plan to make us feel warm, cuddly and all-a-flutter about back and white but it seems Kiwis aren't panda-ing to his ploy. Watch out for desperate attempts to align All Blacks success at the RWC with love of the fern!

    Auckland • Since Jan 2013 • 3 posts Report Reply

  • Shaun Lott,

    Just because Red Peak is better than the panel options doesn't make it a good or even a very well considered choice. That bar was pretty low. None of the options represent New Zealand to me or make a convincing attempt to carry the combination of European (mainly British) and Maori heritage forward. So I guess this makes no difference to me: I'm all for the status quo until such time as we consider this issue properly, and for a better reason than to prop up a third term government that is running out of steam.

    Waitakere • Since Aug 2009 • 108 posts Report Reply

  • andin,

    stop criticising him and his process.

    Can we laugh at him?

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1797 posts Report Reply

  • Jeanette King,

    Agree. I am so relieved. I wanted to change the flag, didn't like the 4 options so was faced with uncertainty about what and how to rank the options in the first referendum, before voting for the current flag in the second. Now I will be doing the same as you: putting Red Peak as number one option in the first ballot. And if it doesn't get through, then voting for the status quo in the second. What would help here is info about how to best strategically rank the other options in the first ballot. For example, can I just put 1 beside Red Peak and not rank any other options and still cast a legal ballot?

    Ōtautahi • Since Oct 2010 • 43 posts Report Reply

  • Amanda Wreckonwith,

    I like Red Peak and would be happy for it to be the new flag.
    Until we become a republic and lose the shackles of old Blighty, I'll be voting to keep the old one.
    I have yet to see any reason for change.

    Since Sep 2012 • 171 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Jeanette King,

    For example, can I just put 1 beside Red Peak and not rank any other options and still cast a legal ballot?

    I think so. We need some advice on this.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22695 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Jeanette King,

    For example, can I just put 1 beside Red Peak and not rank any other options and still cast a legal ballot?

    Yes. We're not Australians, and we don't try and strap the chicken by requiring you to preference everything.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1710 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    When future people and others ask what’s red peak flag all about, we are going to be stuck with um it’s this cosmic metiforical stuff, some elagant design and well there was this dickhead Priminister, and…

    After some deep thinking, I've desided I'm not going to deface my first voting paper when I'm in the voting booth. That's to say I'm going to cast an otherwise vote.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4086 posts Report Reply

  • Pete Sime, in reply to Russell Brown,

    We need some advice on this

    The process is outlined in section 6 of the Flag Referendums Act. It says:

    voters express a first preference for 1 option and may express second and further preferences for other options

    So just ranking one option will be a valid vote.

    Dunedin • Since Apr 2008 • 165 posts Report Reply

  • JonathanM,

    Yes, you can vote for just one. Though it should be noted that it is usually better to vote for any that you prefer over and above others. i.e. your second vote doesn't undermine in any way your first, but it is useful to have your say if your preferred option isn't chosen.

    One thing to be careful of is that if you do vote for more than one, they need to be consecutive and unique, starting at 1. You can't vote two of the flags 2nd equal. Similarly, you can't miss out a number in your preference sequence.

    Since Jul 2012 • 64 posts Report Reply

  • Bevan, in reply to Shaun Lott,

    Read the link at the top of Russell's post.
    It explains the Maori and European (British) aspects of Red Peak.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2013 • 16 posts Report Reply

  • bstevie_, in reply to Russell Brown,

    My understanding is that it's a single transferable vote. The flag with the lowest number of first preferences is dropped, and anyone with that flag as first preference has their vote changed to their second preference. This continues until one flag has at least half of the votes. Your vote only transfers if your favoured flag is dropping out, so you do not harm Red Peak's chances of being selected whatsoever by ranking any other flags.

    So, if you have any sort of preference over the remaining flags it makes sense to put additional rankings. If you hate them all equally you can just leave it blank, in which case if Red Peak drops out at some stage you simply don't have a vote to transfer.

    Since Sep 2015 • 1 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    At least Red Peak has a convincing story about what it represents - cover the left side and you see part of the union jack; cover the right and you get part of a tukutuku panel. As a whole, sunrise on a mountain etc.

    I will adopt the same voting approach as Russell but the wasted opportunity to have a proper constitutional conversation for goodness knows what end irks me fearsome.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19611 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Bevan,

    Read the link at the top of Russell's post.
    It explains the Maori and European (British) aspects of Red Peak.

    ah, that's way better than I could manage, thanks

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19611 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    I'll be voting Red Peak first, Lockwood with the black bit second, Hypnoflag third, and that other Lockwood one fourth.

    Come the deciding referendum, I'm not sure how I'll vote if Red Peak is the preferred alternative. I like it, but I'm not sure that I like it enough to choose it as our flag. On the other hand, it's way better than our current colonial obseiance.

    If it's any of the others, I'll be voting No Change.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Bevan,

    Red Peak number 1 in first referendum. No other votes.
    Then Red Peak or no change.

    Really excited to see the enthusiasm for Red Peak - seems like none of the other four have much of a buzz about them.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2013 • 16 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    I’ll be burning my first referendum paper and envelope* because electricity prices in this country are ridiculous. Despite polling suggesting that Labour’s proposal could have put this thing to bed by christmas a large demographic seem to fallen hook line and sinker for Key’s spin that Labour’s proposal was nothing more than an effort to try get one over on him.

    I’ll be burning my second referendum paper and envelope*, $26 million was ample to create an online voting platform that could have saved our country billions of dollars in the long run, I have absolutely no feeling about flags and none of Key’s expansive rhetoric has altered that, I had no desire to vote on a flaming flag I was coerced into enrolling, it being an offence not to, I can't afford the $100 fine for not doing so because electricity prices in this country are ridiculous. Thus far I have burnt two surplus enrollment forms, one ‘Are You Ready To Enrol & Vote’ pamphlet, two letters informing me of my need to enrol and two envelopes, because electricity prices in this country are ridiculous. I won’t be at all put out if our country votes to change our flag because then I'll be able to burn that too*.
    * Come next winter.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Sacha,

    At least Red Peak has a convincing story about what it represents – cover the left side and you see part of the union jack; cover the right and you get part of a tukutuku panel. As a whole, sunrise on a mountain etc.

    And most of all, it's an actual flag proper. My only reservation is the dark blue next to black. I am hoping there will be a maritime version with better contrast.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4086 posts Report Reply

  • Berinthia Binnie, in reply to steven crawford,

    After some deep thinking, I’ve desided I’m not going to deface my first voting paper when I’m in the voting booth. That’s to say I’m going to cast an otherwise vote.

    Well I suspect the F U J.K vote will be extremely popular with those suffering through 7/9yrs…..although likely he will max out at another 1.5.

    Since Sep 2015 • 23 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Shaun Lott,

    Just because Red Peak is better than the panel options doesn’t make it a good or even a very well considered choice. That bar was pretty low. None of the options represent New Zealand to me or make a convincing attempt to carry the combination of European (mainly British) and Maori heritage forward. So I guess this makes no difference to me: I’m all for the status quo until such time as we consider this issue properly, and for a better reason than to prop up a third term government that is running out of steam.

    This.

    And for anyone who hasn’t seen it, Carol Green’s longlist gives a glimpse of some of the brilliant flag options that hit the cutting room floor.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3886 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to chris,

    So far I have burnt two surplus enrollment forms, one ‘Are You Ready To Enrol & Vote’ pamphlet, two letters informing me of my need to enrol and two envelopes, because electricity prices in this country are ridiculous.

    at least you weren't tempted to eat them, because our food prices are ridiculous as well.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19611 posts Report Reply

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