OnPoint by Keith Ng

Read Post

OnPoint: My last name sounds Chinese

187 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 4 5 6 7 8 Newer→ Last

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to chris,

    I was booted off the Action Station mailing list for providing too much feedback when prompted, feedback along the lines that stopping the advertising of junk food doesn’t really begin to address all the junk food that isn’t advertised

    Do you mean they blacklisted your email address? Or are you talking about an Action Station public forum? Curious as I'm a member/contributor and have found them really good people.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to chris,

    My wife’s family name is Tang, I will give you a free car if you can tell me her ethnicity, not simply the country her name originated from, but her actual ethnicity, I’ll give you one guess.

    She's from Raro?

    (I'll just get my coat and hat...)

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    I mean a single individual is only one of the ethnicities anyway

    Multiple ethnicities per person are becoming more and more common here.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19686 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to nzlemming,

    She's from Raro?

    very good

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19686 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to BenWilson,

    As fascinating as that was Ben, and I'm not being sarcastic, in the express interest of curtailing property speculation, especially with regards to offshore investors;

    as self reported by people in NZ with those names

    we appear to have made no headway whatsoever so...

    Why would I try?

    is a valid question, appropriate for a range of situations for any number of people.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to nzlemming,

    She’s from Raro?

    No car for you today sir, perhaps we could get Rawshark onto it eh?

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    My wife’s family name is Tang, I will give you a free car if you can tell me her ethnicity, not simply the country her name originated from, but her actual ethnicity, I’ll give you one guess.

    Japanese car?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4316 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    I have no idea, I was possibly a bit blunt with Nina earlier in my criticism of them focusing too much energy on us making farewell cards for John Campbell while the Saudi sheep controversy was emerging. Either my junk food advertising feedback was too much or when I ticked the “less email” on that last survey they decided to they weren’t going to do things by half.

    Either way I’ve gone from receiving 5 emails a fortnight to zero, and any idealism I might have once had about how this country should be run has expired, no one in power is speaking in terms that grab me, I lack the dictionary skills to wade through enough jargon to even get through a full political thread here, so I’m just going to go back to voting The Communist Party and leave the politiking to the big kids with their extensive vokabs, twitter accounts and sophisticated moderate tendencies. Who knows maybe I’ll tune in to Back Benches every so often for a dose of Gio sipping beverage and a sound bite from one of the PMs about e-cigarettes being no less harmful than combusted tobacci, just for a laugh, as I inhale the fumes from this fireplace burning these colourful pamphlets that appear in the mail box. At the end of the day, it looks remarkably like the end of the day. But it was a fantastic day.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to steven crawford,

    Leave the ethnicity of my car out it Steven! um, yes.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Known Unknown: What would have happened this last week if Labour had passed on race-trolling with dodgy data and instead put all the energy and political capital into talking up sensible small-business tax reforms?

    Guess we'll never know...

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to chris,

    As fascinating as that was Ben, and I’m not being sarcastic

    Neither was I. Etymology of names is quite an interesting field.

    But it was a fantastic day.

    And a good post too. I'm not sure what all of it meant, but the feeling was conveyed all the better for it. It sure must be exasperating to talk politics in a second language. Even with very high levels of competence there's going to be the nagging feeling things are going on at a level that can't be perceived. Probably a true feeling. But you seem to do OK, and I wasn't trying to patronize you by explaining what I think was happening in this data. It took me at least a day to get it myself. And I could still be wrong. As I said, we don't know the algorithms used, because Salmond is keeping them to himself. It's possible that in matching name for name that linguistic tricks are used to decide that one name really is actually the same as another, or at least sufficiently so for an ethnic classification. But when they're letter for letter identical, there's no need for such sophistication. And a heck of a lot of the names will have been just like that. Letter for letter identical to names found in other data that carry ethnic grouping variables.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10633 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    What I fear with that Craig is that Labour really aren't reading the game, already this year we've seen National slip in a watered down CGT. On May 10 Grant Robertson appeared on Q&A, refloating Labour's election policy regarding the introduction of incentives for migrants to go to the regions. A week later we get this headline:

    Minister: Govt could incentivise migration to regions

    Election 2014;

    "Labour wants drivers' licences and passports in New Zealand to offer ... the party's rainbow policy"

    Yesterday:

    NZ introduces 'gender diverse' option

    Which again is not at all what Labour promised, but it's a massive step in the right direction. These are all in their way the apparent fruits of the National Government, in much the same way as if you ask most people who invented the light bulb they'll answer Thomas Edison, public perception being paramount.

    So I won't be holding my breath waiting 2 years for Labour to implement this new tax policy.

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to chris,

    My wife’s family name is Tang, I will give you a free car if you can tell me her ethnicity, not simply the country her name originated from, but her actual ethnicity, I’ll give you one guess.

    I'm not guessing yet, but she has only a 1/11146375 of being connected to Greenland

    http://forebears.co.uk/surnames/tang#nations2014

    But as Ben noted, that was what was done- for example if some called Tang came up in some names data then that name frequency might be 0.9478 Chinese, but it also gets a 0.0012 contribution towards Canada, and while individuals are wrongly ascribed by the time you add a large group the errors balance out- this is the Central Limit Theorem at work.

    I assume for the car offer, it is OK to match against secondary sources, just as labour also used other sources to match against? I should perhaps give you the option to reconsider the offer first though.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1443 posts Report Reply

  • Soon Lee, in reply to Sacha,

    I'm a Malaysian Chinese New Zealander...

    Auckland • Since Apr 2013 • 141 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to David Hood,

    I should also note, that when it comes to my data matching skills Kylie Matthews (who inherited a historical data set I had linked together) once wrote

    “As a side note, I took over responsibility for keeping David’s database online and available for the public after he left our common workplace, and there should be laws against allowing him access to big data. The maps for starters…”

    The techniques I was (then) inventing were not creepy and stalkerish because they were being used to match together information about long dead people.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1443 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    It sure must be exasperating to talk politics in a second language

    English is not my second language, as you say, “the feeling was conveyed all the better for it”. You understood, you’re just not sure what it meant, not at a level you can intellectualise, it’s just train of thought. scan for gist, or read it allowed as Rob Muldoon, ask questions about anything you’re unsure of or make assumptions, up to you. You were quite accurate regarding Salmond’s methodology, but there are 101 methodologies one could use to make the same point. If as is the case that point is an ill-considered point, then energy spent justifying the methodology could be better spent elsewhere. When the purpose of the long-winded methodology is to malign people with ancestry in specific country in which the 100 most common family names are shared by 85% of the population then one could suggest quicker means.

    But it’s an interesting assumption you make, this assumption that I am a second language user, based on my disdain for imperialist rules, my unconventional word usage or my total contempt for punctuation. I’m confident enough that I earned my UC English Lit degree as well as my CELTA from Cambridge. I’ll defy those who would attempt to marginalise heartfelt communication on the basis of a lack of adherence to linguistic protocol, because English has moved on, and it feels like bad faith to do so. If someone is difficult to understand, and you’re satisfied not understanding someone, not seeking clarification, before making assumptions, that’s your prerogative, unlike Youi and Seelan.

    This issue, as I see it, is not so much the Auckland housing bubble as it is the firesale of New Zealand, farms, homes, businesses, throughout the country, to nonresidents, aggravated by a lack of development in the regions. However this like many issues that the media present us with is secondary, the key issues that our country faces are those affecting the most vulnerable; the disabled, the homeless, those suffering addictions, the under-clothed, the underfed, those in abusive and violent relationships, the suicidal, those cast under the wheel of the legal system.

    half a year ago, I was on here and people were discussing the Auckland housing bubble. Six months on and wouldn’t you know it. But of far more concern to me is this stiflingly uncreative bubble the intelligensia of the left have pitched, around themselves, preventing much in the way of good ideas getting out, it’s becoming a tiny of clutch of intellect talking to itself. speculating on the fate of the country as if they’re watching a sports fixture. When I talk of jargon, of insularity, it’s not that I have any difficulty reading plain English, it’s that the rhetoric has evolved to a state where while it is ideal for any political pundit aspirant writer par excellence, very little if anything of value will reach or speak to the “average kiwi”. As a random example, take a hat, the hat of an ordinary kiwi, and read this random sample paragraph.

    "I take your position to be that otherwise innocent policies and discussions pertaining to blanket restrictions on foreign investment in housing are racist because such policies will have a disparate impact on New Zealand’s residents and citizens. I think the basic incoherence of this idea has its origins in your nebulous use of language. Despite what you appear to believe, it’s no small thing to publicly call the shadow Minister for Housing a racist. Obviously, I’d be disappointed if the impetus behind Labour’s housing proposals were blunted in this way.

    i.e. don’t call Twyford a racist, punk.

    Let’s stop calling people incoherent shall we and read a bit harder, and feel a little more, perhaps write a little less, and instead maybe put all that surplus energy into time with our loved ones and communities and thinking up solutions, and great ways of communicating them succinctly.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to David Hood,

    I assume for the car offer, it is OK to match against secondary sources, just as labour also used other sources to match against? I should perhaps give you the option to reconsider the offer first though.

    While I could think of a hundred better things to spend your time doing, I understand this is kind of your thing so go for your life David.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to chris,

    To be honest, I don't want to as I would feel icky trying, even more so for succeeding, but there are a few thousand people around China who probably feel they owe me a favour and might fill me in on internal subtleties of ethnicity.

    It is something that can appear at multiple levels though- we would all understand a few the complexities around "I am a Texan first, then an American" vs. "I am a hispanic-american living in Texas", from the point of view of the analysis that kicked the whole thing off, it doesn't really matter too much as a Texan-first can be treated as an American for the purposes of the analysis.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1443 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to chris,

    But it’s an interesting assumption you make, this assumption that I am a second language user, based on my disdain for imperialist rules, my unconventional word usage or my total contempt for punctuation.

    LOL ooops. I really thought you were saying English was hard for you, reaching for the dictionary etc. No offense meant – as I said, you do fine. “Disdain for imperialist rules” makes a lot more sense in terms of how you communicate. To me, so long as meaning is clear then rules can be damned. And if it’s not clear, there’s no rule against trying again, another way.

    I get your point about saying more with less. That is, however, the exact opposite of my writing style, and that is deliberately so. Certainly you can say something faster, but often what you lose in doing so ends up having to be all explained anyway. In your example, I don’t think summarizing a disagreement with another person over style by simply calling them a punk will actually lead to less words expended. It could just as easily go the other way, with endless fighting and backpedaling, reclarifications etc. Also, if it does lead to less, it could be in a bad way, with the other person simply refusing to continue with an argument that seems to be turning towards personal attacks.

    But I do agree that if you do want to call someone a punk, it’s more honest to just do it, rather than wrapping it up more first. OTOH, sometimes it’s even more insulting with the wrapping on.

    Are we digressing? Not sure. Are you saying that at the level in which using racial information to hint at a social problem hits the race concerned, it only adds insult to injury to go on explaining why it wasn’t meant to be racist? And makes it worse and worse to go on and on about it? If so, you’ve got a point. Or rather, any efforts I make to mitigate it would be futile.

    Which is how I felt from the start. I just acknowledge that it’s insulting right off the bat. No fight there. Only fight is about what the information itself actually means. I’m barely even interested in the question of whether it makes a lot of Chinese people feel like shit. It’s a no-brainer that it does. Especially since they say it does.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10633 posts Report Reply

  • Kalka River, in reply to Alfie,

    The reason China is mentioned so often is that they're the predominent foreign buyer worldwide.

    What bullshit. And even if it was the case so effing what? China has the biggest population.

    On a per capita basis China is way behind Australia, the US, and other Western countries.

    In absolute terms China's acquisitions are about the same as the US

    United States, the UAE and China all constitute around 12 per cent of deals
    India with 8 per cent
    Egypt and the UK with 6 per cent
    South Korea with 5 per cent
    South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Singapore and Malaysia all with 4 per cent.

    Auckland • Since Jul 2015 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • Kalka River, in reply to chris,

    This is antiquated: distinguishing between the name’s Ng and Nguyen, perpetuating this perception, the perception that no Vietnamese person has ever crossed that border to China and kept their name.

    What an idiotic post.

    By Chinese sounding names we mean names that belong to the dominant Han ethnicity, dominant by numbers you idiot.

    Just like if we said English sounding names, we would probably mean 'Smith' or 'Watson' or 'Twitford' or whatever.....or Russian names like 'Putin' 'Zhukov' and 'Pavlov'

    That's obviously no disrespect to the minorities of those countries.

    Obviously we are talking of Chinese as an ethnicity, not citizens of China.

    Similarly Russia is called Russia and there is an ethnic group called Russians, but there are heaps of minority groups within.

    Auckland • Since Jul 2015 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • Kalka River, in reply to Alfie,

    I support foreign investment which helps our country to grow – but selling off the family silver is short-term thinking.

    Actually I agree. But the fact that you are jumping up and down like a bitch on heat over the Chinese shows what a racist prick you are.

    If your wife sold off the family silver without your knowledge or your approval, who do you blame ---obviously your wife! You don't go round screaming your head off and crying like a girl to the buyer right? Not his fault. And he gave you a great price for it.

    Problem with people like you is you can't stand the fact that a non-white power is rising and non-white people have money.

    That's your problem. And that's the problem of a lot of people all over the West.

    While cry your eyes out all you want ----China is going to be the big power, is the big power, but will be the biggest soon. The US of effing A has had its day. And a good thing that is for peace and prosperity throughout the world.

    Auckland • Since Jul 2015 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Kalka River,

    Problem with people like you is you can’t stand the fact that a non-white power is rising and non-white people have money.

    “…People like you…” Ah, such othering language.
    To rephrase: “you are worried that you (and more generally, others like you) are losing some control over your own lives”.
    (i) Is that an illogical stance?
    (ii) Is it necessarily “racist”?
    [Some degree of xenophobia may certainly be involved, in dividing “others like you” whom you can meet, and you feel you understand, and so are readier to have in control (e.g. as landlords), from “others unlike you” whom you haven’t met, and whose motives you are less certain of.]

    NB1: a note on formatting on this site: HTML tags don’t work. Boldface can be applied using a double asterisk as a delimiter; italics using a double underscore as a delimiter (see instructions under the “Post your response” box).

    NB2: On this forum at least, it’s usually safer to assume that someone you disagree with is not automatically an “idiot”.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1889 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    NB3: We're not hugely keen on gendered insults like "crying like a girl".

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Danielle,

    Indeed, bigoted in his objection to bigotry .. in a big way.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 4 5 6 7 8 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.