Speaker by Various Artists

On the whole I agree with you, but there are some "progressive" Christian leaders out there:

http://www.facebook.com/ChristiansForMarriageEqualityAotearoaNZ

For example...

I haven’t been a Christian for some years, but recently I have been “working” in the vocal ensemble at St Matthew-in-the-city on Sunday mornings. I had some qualms about endorsing an institution that I don’t believe in, but their devotion to social justice and equality has won me over (I’ve always thought their famous billboards tended towards cheap shots at the expense of actual reasoned debate, but the intent is genuine and their advocacy is real). If people must believe, then I’d rather they believed this way, not that I really have a say.

I know there are other churches around the country with similar stances – St Andrew’s on The Terrace comes to mind – and there was a letter in favour of marriage equality signed by priests of many Protestant denominations circulating around Facebook a while ago. But traditional protestantism is shrinking in this country (something that I’m conflicted about as a sympathiser rather than a believer), and as it does so I think it’s inevitable that congregations will become more polarised; those who care less, one way or another, are those most likely to drift away.

The Christian churches need to a take a long hard look at themselves.

For sure, but it's also worth noting that there are no generic "Christian churches". Since most reformed churches don't fall under the "rule" of a worldwide authority, they differ from country to country and often reflect the attitudes of the countries they work in. Yes, generally more conservative, but not always completely out of step.

Here is a List of Christian denominational positions on homosexuality.

The church I'm most familiar with would be the Lutheran Church of Sweden, which allows both the officiating of same-sex marriage as well as gay clergy. Also, the current Bishop of Stockholm is an out lesbian.

IANAC but I seem to recall that one of the things about Baptists (as opposed to Anglicans, for instance) is that they don't have a hierarchy, so there are as many views as adherents?

Nicely and succinctly put Colin. I long ago ceased 'practising' in any overtly Christian manner but was/am strongly influenced by a good and progressive Catholic (yes, it is possible) schooling. It shits-me-to-tears to hear/read Church leaders expropriate Christ for their own selfish and exclusive agendas. As others have noted, there are churches publicly advocating for marriage equality, in Sydney the MCC issued this statement.

Great post Colin, thank you.

They have become a by-word for mindless prejudice.

Its what those in organisations do. Subsume individuality to the continuation of the organisation, and we have a lot of them govts with all its subgroups, corporations, and so called social organisations. These groupings adopt a lazy confining definition of "people" and filter everything through that. There is no leadership coming from them, just crowd control doctrines.

Seen on campus, lunchtime today. Headline reads:

“Should homosexual marriage be legalised?”

See the post its? Divided between “support” and “oppose”. Most of them posted to the left of the board, where it says “support”.

Translation notes: Chose “homosexual” rather than “gay” for 同性恋 in an [incompetent, probably] attempt to capture as full a range as possible of 同性恋 – the terms don’t seem to map quite as easily as one would like. Also, the question has an “or not” on the end [该不该], but given that the options or “support” or “oppose” I felt it better to drop the “or not” – a touch more coherent, I hope.

ETA: note at the bottom of the sign says "Beijing University of Technology Students Association". That may be relevant to some, as in it's not some fringe or minority organisation running this activity.

S'pose I should also add that China is really conservative on such matters - under Confucianism, one of the greatest sins is to not produce descendants for your ancestors.

That's awesome Chris.

Thanks for speaking up, Colin. Been thinking about this for days now, but I don't have anything to add other than moral support for your decision and the reasoning.

An unusual event in itself, that legislation lifts rather than creates a burden; the passing of the bill makes life easier for people.

<.....the effect of your support will be to further reduce the claimed 20% of regular churchgoers. >

Which is why I'm flabbergasted at the enormous sums being bandied about to rebuild Christchurch Cathedral. While I mourn the loss of a splendid piece of architecture, I feel the 20% who will use it should bear the cost of it's reconstruction ... otherwise, forget it.

Thanks Colin for putting an alternate view out there. There are plenty of churches out there with members and supporters who are more relaxed about this change.

In my experience there is a huge diversity of political views inside churches of all kinds and these span the entire spectrum - not just conservative as many seem to imagine.

From my observation a fair number of my friends are somewhat bemused that anyone actually still wants to get married.

Ironically that gay people want to get married seems more like it will have a stabilising effect pretty much any way you want to measure that. Marriage to me seems like a very conservative thing to do.

A quick look at the actual numbers Civil Unions and Marriages (Provisional) shows since 2006 that there are about 23,000 weddings each year( for the past 6) including civil unions.

Civil Unions between same sex and hetero have been in the order of 200-300 each year which is a tiny fraction of the 23k.

It may be that a high percentage of the civil union folks will want to get married but even if that is the case the numbers are tiny in comparison to the number of other marriages each year which end in divorce.

I'd guess that regardless of what any particular group thinks about marriage I'd hope it is much more optimistic than what they think about divorce.

On a more personal level I know some of the people who want to get married and I'm happy for them and wish them all the best.

I do feel a little bit like some of this is like the Faulty Towers Germans episode where Basil says "Listen, don't mention the war! etc.

In this instance marriage is not about the ceremony it is about much more and anyone who really wants to join the club should be encouraged.