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Speaker: What goes on tour

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  • Che Tibby,

    one of them stole a pedal-boat and two of them started pashing each other. Now that is how you party!

    bro.

    the next time we're out drinking, remind me to be the one who steals the pedal-boat.

    heh.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    Cool, coz while your handsome and all, I don't fancy pashing you.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2090 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    Has anyone explained why Alice in WOnderland costumes were involved?

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • anjum rahman,

    i'm calling bullshit on this one. i take your point that the rugby players are innocent until proven guilty. but how about we give the young girl the same courtesy? in other words, let's not assume she's an extortionist or a liar until she is proved to be so.

    are the two positions contradictory? i don't think so. it's a matter of mentally thinking that we don't know what the truth is here, so let's suspend judgement.

    i guess i'm really angry that the vilification of this young woman started almost immediately from the moment the nature of the complaint became public. is it any wonder then that she has so far not pressed charges, even though she apparently ended up in hospital. knowing that she will face more of this in a much nastier way if she goes ahead is a significant deterrant to making a complaint.

    hamilton • Since Nov 2006 • 130 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    I don't fancy pashing you

    you say that now...

    but ignore me. anjum has some actual and serious points.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    the vilification of this young woman started almost immediately

    Plus ça change.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    The reporters have been struggling with this one. In the absence of a formal complaint or charge, they're generally reluctant to say "alleged rape". So this, er, incident, has been described in various media over the past week as "high jinks", "hanky panky", "sex scandal", "off field distraction", etc.

    I don't know what the best description is for something we don't know (hence my retreat behind the neutral "incident"), but the blurring between the language of crime and the language of fun has left me feeling pretty uncomfortable.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1320 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    i saw the vilification, but the main message i got was, "players up to no good, possible rape being looked at by police".

    what was confusing was whether the one selling her story was also the one talking to the police. and i don't think i'm alone in being under the misapprehension.

    the media seemed to happy to mix the two up, and thereby make all these girls look bad, i.e. "they might have had it coming".

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    the media seemed to happy to mix the two up, and thereby make all these girls look bad, i.e. "they might have had it coming".

    I thought the Herald on Sunday was particularly bad on that score. Along with their kiddy-porn pics in the feature section, it added up to a fairly revolting edition.

    My impression, from conversations during the weekend, is that most people, understandably, feel they don't know exactly what happened, but that whatever took place was not good.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22747 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    but how about we give the young girl the same courtesy? in other words, let's not assume she's an extortionist or a liar until she is proved to be so.

    And that is why I rewrote this post so much. My default position was that she was telling the truth and that the players were lying. My reasoning being: if you were innocent why not cooperate with the police?

    Then my partner said if she was in the same position as the players and was innocent she'd be terrified of the police.

    I haven't noticed the media being too harsh on the girls but perhaps I just wasn't sensitive enough to the criticism. In fact I was more revolted at Stuff.co.nz reveling in the sordid details of Sophie Lewis' evening with the "sexual energizer bunny" only days after they <a href="http://www.dropkicks.co.nz/football/sport_and_munters_winner_day">wrote about topless football in Austria</a>.

    Funnily enough a lot of reports are saying "good riddance to bad rubbish" as the English leave, and I read that as having something to do with the rape allegations, turns out they were commenting on the quality of the rugby.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2090 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    and look at me forgetting how to format a link: In fact I was more revolted at Stuff.co.nz reveling in the sordid details of Sophie Lewis' evening with the "sexual energizer bunny" only days after they wrote about topless football in Austria.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2090 posts Report Reply

  • Shep Cheyenne,

    There are plenty of incidents where Rugby & Cricket reps never played again at top level after these 'things' go on.

    A certain NZ cricket player was brushed to the side over a decade ago. A friend told me she never reported what happened to her at 16 with an overseas cricket player.
    And sometimes Rugby players in their prime just decide to play overseas for 10yrs.

    That seems to be the 'best' outcome that can happen,

    In this light Warnie & Byron seem to have some morals, it all seems consentual, no discression = no cover-up but still no class.

    Since Oct 2007 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Not sure what your point is, Shep. I would have thought the best outcome was that crimes should be prosecuted and non-criminals should be left alone.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1320 posts Report Reply

  • Charles Mabbett,

    IMHO - The most interesting sport being played at the moment is happening in Europe.

    Has anyone else noticed how one of the Turkish players at the centre of their late late late shows at Euro 2008 looks a lot like Damien Christie?

    That's Semih Senturk the striker who has scored late winners in his team's matches against the Czech Republic and Croatia and is probably the single reason why they're in the semifinal against Germany later this week.

    Separated at birth? Similar angelic face with receding hairline.

    But probably a better finisher than Mr Christie.

    Since Nov 2006 • 236 posts Report Reply

  • Shep Cheyenne,

    Simon -
    Is it likely that this will lead to a conviction?

    Bulldogs left a girl naked & bloody - still no conviction.

    It's a legal system not a justice system, I fear she'll get no justice & probably put herself through more pain.

    From the police stats it's roughly a 60% resolved for sexual offences. I don't know if that means conviction or what, but little better than a coin toss for a conviction.

    http://www.police.govt.nz/service/statistics/2007/calendar/stats-national-20071231.pdf

    Since Oct 2007 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Charles Mabbett,

    Just to correct that, Semih Senturk scored against Switzerland and Croatia.

    Serendipiditously, Senturk means 'happy Turk'.

    Since Nov 2006 • 236 posts Report Reply

  • LegBreak,

    From what I can work out, the person really doing the complaining is the (possibly ex) boyfriend of the 18 year-old. He was the one that made her go to the hospital on the Sunday night etc. But he’s hardly impartial, is he?

    As for this Sophie Lewis: I assume she’s related to Lisa?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1162 posts Report Reply

  • Charles Mabbett,

    Shep, discretion is the better part of discression.

    Since Nov 2006 • 236 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    They geld thoroughbred stallions to make them more controllable.

    Maybe do the same with rugby players? There isn't the same issue with not being able to breed from them, for as far as I know, unlike horseracing, no rugby code forbids artificial insemination.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • rodgerd,

    I haven't noticed the media being too harsh on the girls

    No, but the English RFU were quite happy to suggest it was a "set up". Yes, because obviously here in New Zealand, home of English-hating inbreds who have nothing better in our lives than rugby, we'd dangle young seductresses in front of poor, innocent, harmless young blokes (salt of the earth, you know, pure as their shirts are white, never had a drug dealer as captain) so that the police can jack up a rape case because we all know that there's no other way the All Blacks can beat an English side.

    Excuse me, I seem to be foaming at the mouth...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 512 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    They geld thoroughbred stallions

    heh. my first thought was to question to wisdom of these young women in going to a hotel with a rugby team. but then i realised i was being accepting of the risk these blokes present.

    and that's the real story the papers overlooked. why the hell should young women have to consider risk when hanging with these guys? that is unacceptable.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Shep Cheyenne,

    Charles by correcting my spelling - you displayed neither ;-)

    but thank you.

    Since Oct 2007 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    heh. my first thought was to question to wisdom of these young women in going to a hotel with a rugby team. but then i realised i was being accepting of the risk these blokes present.

    and that's the real story the papers overlooked. why the hell should young women have to consider risk when hanging with these guys? that is unacceptable.

    No, Che, what I consider unacceptable is fucking naivete. I shouldn't have to say this, but rape is absolutely, unconditionally unacceptable in any civilized society. Let's take that as read. But how about the notion that freedom comes with risks, and women (or men, for that matter -- teh gayz certainly aren't short of sleazy scumbags) really have to take some ownership of their own safety. That's not 'blaming the victim' in my book, but the kind of healthy realism that might prevent people being victims of sexual predators in the first place.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    i'm calling bullshit on this one. i take your point that the rugby players are innocent until proven guilty. but how about we give the young girl the same courtesy? in other words, let's not assume she's an extortionist or a liar until she is proved to be so.

    Fair enough, Anjum. But having said that, like Russell I found the Horseshit on Slumday all-too typically repulsive. Then again, nobody seems to be asking why someone who's shopping a story about being sexually assaulted wasn't told to get lost and take the allegations to the police. Not for the first time, I ask myself why editors don't seem to be held accountable for a total absence of editorial judgement.

    Whatever happened in this specific case (and I don't know), it was about as far from savoury as you can get without falling off the edge of the world. But I'd like to see the media taking a good hard look at themselves, and some hard questions being asked about why they've insisted on making a bad situation even worse. Won't hold my breath waiting, though.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Craig - I understandstand where you're coming from - but have to disagree - really there are two issues here:

    - should people be carefull around football players (or whoever given their rep)?

    - should people have to be carefull in such situations?

    obviously it's smart to be carefull around scumbags - but equally one shouldn't have to be carefull around scumbags

    Obviously there's a class of scumbags (including, as we've found out over the past years' some police) who consider they're above the laws because, in general, they can get away with it

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2605 posts Report Reply

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