Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Fringe of Darkness

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  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Lilith __,

    examining the wider picture through face-to-face interviews with a wide variety of people directly involved, is tremendously valuable.

    It is, I agree. Which is why I suggested wider collaboration, with experts in the field.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    This is what someone above (I think Emma) might have thought of John Potter.

    No. Please restrain yourself from putting words in my mouth. I am not going to engage with you any further.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Emma Hart,

    He grew up surrounded by this stuff. What chance did he ever have of a normal life?

    Hands up who thinks abuse victims are more likely to become pedophiles?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4356 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    As I said earlier, we needed to listen to that guy who said,

    “In the end,” he says, gripping his coffee mug hard, “guys will just be wanking over your stories.”

    Having read that in context in Anke's article I'm frankly puzzled as to why you'd single out a statement which, perhaps more than any other single quote from any of the unreconstructed Potter alumni, encapsulates the breathtaking lack of insight from those who'd happily outsource their moral compass to a charlatan.

    There are other "male voices" I find it vastly more worthwhile to recall. For example, the old acquaintance who, back before Potter's unmasking, mentioned that he'd attended one of the then-ratcatcher's pre-centrepoint seminars.
    So how did he find that?
    "A randy old man talking bullshit".

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Lilith __,

    including people bizarrely attacking them as if they were exploiters

    Of for goodness sake.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    I’m frankly puzzled as to why you’d single out a statement

    I singled it out because he still walks and stalks among us;

    On the night before I’m to meet my next Centrepoint informant, I mention this man’s name without further context to a couple who live in his Titirangi neighbourhood. The husband erupts in anger, shouting at me. An irrational fear creeps over me. After days of gruelling and volatile encounters, my overloaded brain can’t handle another CP drama. I lose it. It turns out the man in question has been stalking this couple’s daughter.

    Should we be interviewing him for a book - or sending the police around?

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    Should we be interviewing him for a book - or sending the police around?

    The last few paragraphs of Anke Richter's article make it plain why, according to her own judgement and the expertise of those she credits, she took the course she did. As it's now in the public domain, presumably you can do what you wish with the information she's supplied.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    No I can't, he's not named.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    No I can't, he's not named.

    If it were simply a matter of "sending the police around" that shouldn't be a major problem. After all, they have their methods once they're motivated. As it seems plain that they're not for whatever reasons, I don't believe that it was in Anke Richter's immediate power to put a stop to the alleged "walking and stalking".

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    Katharine, I agree with a lot of what you say. But I totally dissagree about some of the other stuff.

    Academic – verse – journalistic both these approches can do good and bad.

    There have been Academic study’s of convicted male sex offenders, which found that some of them said thay had themselfs been abused as children. But I havn’t been able to find much academic awareness about male victims of childhood abuse who are not convicted pedophiles, in New Zealand. This might not seem like a big deal. But it is when some medical practitioners have been known to ask questions like “have you thought about abusing children yourself” during interviews of men who are seeking help for the first time in there lives, becouse they have failed at suicide. Thus, confirming there fears of being poorly judged. Bad journalism, fails to notice these sorts of academic shortcomings and continues to perpetuate damaging myths. Bad academia employs Dr Goodyear-smith.

    Sexual abuse treatment, is in its infancy. It was lifted out of the dark ages in 1995 by awesome feminist, Judith Herman*. Her work imakes parallels between sexual abuse courses and warfare and establishes PTSD (complex) as a set of symtoms. Part of the recovery process involves the entire community recovering – the survivor of the abuse is empowerd by seeing there community come out into the daylight.

    *Judith Herman has some weard views about the male psyche. Which is forgivable. Freud had some weard ideas about the female psyche.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4356 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to steven crawford,

    At your recommendation I looked up Judith Harman.

    She gets it.

    The main work of stage two involves:

    Reviewing and/or discussing memories to lessen their emotional intensity, to revise their meanings for one’s life and identity, etc.

    Working through grief about unwanted or abusive experiences and their negative effects on one’s life.

    Mourning or working through grief about good experiences that one did not have, but that all children deserve.

    https://1in6.org/men/get-information/online-readings/recovery-and-therapy/stages-of-recovery/judith-hermans-stages-of-recovery/

    Thank you Steven...I've bookmaked that.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to steven crawford,

    Thanks steven - and I've got no problem with being disagreed with - at all. How could any of us purport to know 'truth' - and I say this in the pure scientific sense as well. I believe it's healthy to believe without proof.

    Bad academia employs Dr Goodyear-smith.

    Yes, makes me sick to my stomach.

    And yes, treatment is in its infancy, but perhaps even more my personal bug bear, is the utter disdain we as a wider society seem to be prepared to devote in dollar terms to that treatment, and to prevention. And I guess my own personal view is that good research and science in academia would get us somewhere better. Just think if we had devoted as much to research in this area, as we have to research into climate change. Not that I'm a climate change denier, but what more knowledge do we need in order to take effective action? Contrast this with how little we know about how to take effective action in respect of child abuse, violence - and suicide prevention for all that matters;

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/19/we-have-to-start-talking-about-it-new-zealand-suicide-rates-hit-record-high

    We don't even have a Crown Research Institute devoted to social science. Yet where really are most of our societal ills grounded?

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    John Briere is also very good.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4356 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    The Canadians are good at researching this area.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4356 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to steven crawford,

    This might not seem like a big deal.

    PS It is a big deal - and it should be remedied/addressed. Which is what my above post was meaning to address.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to steven crawford,

    The Canadians are good at researching this area.

    Good. We need a local context however, given we seem to be leading the international stats in this - and many related - problems. It irks me to think we lead the world in research associated with making cow farts less environmentally damaging - whilst this (and mental health in general) is such a wide spread problem requiring urgent attention.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    Bad academia employs Dr Goodyear-smith.

    Yes, makes me sick to my stomach.

    It also employs David Round and Greg Clydesdale.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5428 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    If you've got a world-leading research group in an area relevant to NZ exports, would you really defund or disband it in order to fund mental health research? Research funding in NZ shouldn't ever be cast as a competition for scarce resources, because that scarcity is artificial, driven by shortsighted government costcutting and industry neglect. There should be more funding of research, period. And industry should do its share of the funding.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1901 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to linger,

    If you’ve got a world-leading research group in an area relevant to NZ exports, would you really defund or disband it in order to fund mental health research?

    Well yes, I would. But for a very simple and unscientific reason - there is an easy solution to the problem we are trying to solve: we have too many cows on the scarce resource that is fertile land. Regardless of the composition of their farts - they are still going to pee.

    Technology will not 'save' us we have to go back to the underlying message of sustainability - that being we have to change our consumptive behaviours given the limits nature imposes on us.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Noted - never heard of them before.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Katharine Moody,

    We don't even have a Crown Research Institute devoted to social science.

    If you don't count this bunch of immaculately academically credentialed social scientists toiling for the Crown.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    LOL – don’t get me started on where the economics profession has gone. Most of them don’t see themselves as social scientists – in the sense that they hold that there are certain ‘universal truths’ about their science.

    PS to all my economist friends - I did say most - not all!

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to steven crawford,

    He grew up surrounded by this stuff. What chance did he ever have of a normal life?

    Hands up who thinks abuse victims are more likely to become pedophiles?

    I've been thinking about this all afternoon.

    I don't know.

    At some point in our lives we choose the path we want to take.

    Some victims/survivors of child abuse(in all its forms) do not go on to abuse others.

    In fact....make that most.

    We make a conscious decision not to do to our kids what was done to us.

    It's not always easy. But we really, really don't want our children to feel like shit too.

    Any research into child abuse has to involve those who were abused but didn't go on to abuse others.


    Thanks again for those links.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Katharine Moody, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    In fact….make that most.

    I'm with you on that one - I imagine it is only a small minority who do. And anyway, I imagine paedophilia is a mental illness - one that can do extreme harm to others, but an illness no more or less an illness than haemophlia. Prevention from doing further harm I imagine has to do with a great deal of initiatives, one being finding a cure or a way to control it (the desire to offend) much as we control epilepsy reasonably effectively these days.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2014 • 798 posts Report Reply

  • lynne walker, in reply to Lilith __,

    yep agree with you Lilith, what the F***? indeed

    Auckland • Since Jan 2011 • 23 posts Report Reply

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