Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: Romeo Smells of Roses

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  • stephen walker,

    @Amy:
    lol for ages, thanks!

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 645 posts Report Reply

  • Mrs Skin,

    It is sad that Michael Stevens is unable to recognise that asexuals face discrimination, sexual attacks, the whole bejeebus - but on his head be it.

    That column is like he's contrived to give the appearance of thinking, but actually isn't.

    I'll agree that it's not one of his better-written pieces, but I think the question he's asking is not "What are the effects of our non-heteronormativity?" (wow, there's a word!) but "What are the bases for those effects and are there enough similarities for us all to be lumped in together?"

    His answer is the bases are are so different that we should be separated. My response would be that we're not yet at the stage of being able to differentiate because the effects of/response from society to our sexual attributes are so very similar.

    the warmest room in the h… • Since Feb 2009 • 168 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    BTW, Emma, that "people" substitution trick is brilliant.

    You obviously don't hang around socialists enough.

    Shouldn't that read "You obviously don't hang around PEOPLE enough."
    ;-)

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    </quote>Shouldn't that read "You obviously don't hang around PEOPLE enough."</quote>

    Oh, heavens, no. No no no no no no.

    No.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    </quote>Shouldn't that read "You obviously don't hang around PEOPLE enough."</quote>

    Oh, heavens, no. No no no no no no.

    No.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Wrong quote tags, double posting - epic FAIL.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Barbara,

    Great Post Emma. Brings to mind my dislike of honorifics. I've never really felt comfortable with any they try to label me with so just try to avoid them..

    Sandringham • Since Mar 2008 • 33 posts Report Reply

  • Amy Gale,

    How about the use of phrases like "they burned witches"?

    Uh, no, no they didn't.

    tha Ith • Since May 2007 • 471 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    How about the use of phrases like "they burned witches"?

    *twitches*

    There's actually not a word in that phrase I don't have a problem with. Amy, I take it yours is with 'witches'? Any time someone talks about how effective torture is I think about how it helped 'em catch all those witches.

    Meanwhile my inner pendant is nagging me to tell everyone that most witches were hanged, not burned. And that every time the word 'witch' appears in the Bible it's being translated from a different Hebrew word, but hey, James I didn't have a 'thing' about female poisoners, so what harm can a bit of poetic licence do?

    I try to restrain my inner crazy ranting bitch for you guys.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew Stevenson,

    I try to restrain my inner crazy ranting bitch for you guys.

    But why?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • Amy Gale,

    I guess I see "witches" as the only absolutely ridiculous word.

    I do agree that people shouldn't be told that burning was most common if it wasn't. Although: is burning portrayed as more common than hanging? I think it may be that it's highlighted because it's more horrifying. Not that hanging isn't plenty horrifying. Anyone else hiding behind the couch during Tudors season 3?

    Must confess to struggling with what might be wrong with "they". There was often more than one person involved, right?

    tha Ith • Since May 2007 • 471 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Although: is burning portrayed as more common than hanging?

    Drowning was popular, too.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Dave Waugh,

    Drowning was popular, too.

    Ducks have a lot to answer for.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 98 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Drowning was popular, too.

    That old 'if you drown, you were innocent! But if you survive, you're a witch so you get hung!' thing was kinda win-win, no?

    Poor women-who-didn't-fit-the-norm. Paul Henry would be first in line to stick them in the dunking basket.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Although: is burning portrayed as more common than hanging? I think it may be that it's highlighted because it's more horrifying.

    Indeed. So some neo-pagans (there's a word that makes me wince) refer to the witch trials as The Burning Times. Any time someone's accused of being a witch you'll see them tied to a stake.

    But hanging was more efficient when dealing with bulk accusations. You just line 'em all up on one of those party gibbets. And if it's 'death by hanging' rather than 'being hung by the neck until dead', it's faster than burning too.

    The 'they' thing... y'know 'they'? The vast shadowy secret organisation that does everything? Witch trials happened all the way from Russia, through all of Europe, England, Scotland, and into the New World colonies, over a period of nearly three hundred years. How it happened and why it happened and who was 'behind it', that varied hugely from place to place. So when my batfuck flatmate finds out I'm writing on witch trials for history and says 'they did that to get women out of the medical profession', I'm looking for something to smack my head on. Lots of men went down too, particularly doctors.

    I don't want to undervalue the sterling work of the Inquisition, but the accusation that got you booted and pressed and ducked and hanged probably came from your neighbour.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    But hanging was more efficient when dealing with bulk accusations.

    Also, it's an all-weather sport.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew Stevenson,

    Is the restraint slipping?

    I don't want to undervalue the sterling work of the Inquisition, but the accusation that got you booted and pressed and ducked and hanged probably came from your neighbour.

    Don't they (sorry) also say that the property of the accused was forfit to the Inquisition/witchfinder - pays to get the incentives right.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 206 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Savidge,

    I try to restrain my inner crazy ranting bitch for you guys.

    Please don't.

    The world needs to hear it. So go ahead, I beg you, fuel up the rantmobile and take us for a spin.

    Somewhere near Wellington… • Since Nov 2006 • 324 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Your fan base sure is frisky today, Emma.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Your fan base sure is frisky today, Emma.

    Heh, I'm thinking about emailing my partner and saying 'See? That expression you get on your face when I've already been ranting for fifteen minutes and you hear the phrase 'and then '? Completely unjustified'.

    Except I'm pretty sure he's still right.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • JoJo,

    The world needs to hear it. So go ahead, I beg you, fuel up the rantmobile and take us for a spin.

    Well... while Emma's unleashing hers...

    For a teachers' college assignment, I proposed a unit on witches - how they're portrayed in literature, media, movies, etc. And reading accounts from various sources about what witchcraft involves and how people accused of witchcraft were valued or prosecuted throughout history... Nothing too gory, although the kids would have loved that part of it.

    I was sternly reprimanded. Basically, they said that parents/schools would never allow kids to explore witchcraft in such a way, that it was either green-faced, warted hags who cook you in a pot, or nothing.

    I left teaching pretty soon after graduating.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 95 posts Report Reply

  • Amy Gale,

    Ah, gotcha on the "they". I was imagining that the sentence started with something like "The witchfinder and his apprentice came to town and..."

    tha Ith • Since May 2007 • 471 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Savidge,

    Heh, I'm thinking about emailing my partner and saying 'See? That expression you get on your face when I've already been ranting for fifteen minutes and you hear the phrase 'and then'? Completely unjustified'.

    Except I'm pretty sure he's still right.

    I'm pretty sure you'd be a, um, challenging presence in full flight Emma.

    At least online you can't tell when I'm not listening.

    Somewhere near Wellington… • Since Nov 2006 • 324 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Basically, they said that parents/schools would never allow kids to explore witchcraft in such a way, that it was either green-faced, warted hags who cook you in a pot, or nothing.

    The really sad thing is that, as far as parents go, they're probably right. That'd cause a complete, apopleptic fit at my kids' primary school. (Though not at the secondary school my son now attends, should you want to get back into teaching. They'd LOVE that.)

    I can remember one of my daughter's pre-school session out at van Asch. Donna was teaching her about things that don't exist ie cat, that's real, but giant isn't, that's made up. Witch was on the list of made-up things. I got very slightly antsy, and after class she asked why. Turns out she'd already had shit from one parent about saying fairies weren't real, and from another about giants and dwarves. I had some sympathy.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Andrew Stevenson,

    Basically, they said that parents/schools would never allow kids to explore witchcraft in such a way, that it was either green-faced, warted hags who cook you in a pot, or nothing.

    So how do you change the name/label they have in their mind to prevent these knee jerk reactions? (or perhaps these are two seperate things?)

    Then we'll move onto something slightly harder, the the name/label "God"

    Meanwhile I will try to deal with the label of Emma's fanbase that giovanni just slapped on...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 206 posts Report Reply

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