Busytown: Holiday reading lust
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Islander, do try to be civil. And no I am not trying to be provocative; I am stating what is an observable phenomenon. It is also a necessary one: for any sub-culture to exist it must be distinct from mainstream culture. And the fact that canonical writers use non-canonical genres does not make those genres canonical, just as the appropriation of outsider art by established artists does not make those outsiders into insiders.
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if it merely rewards the best novel (not-sf) it should change the claims it makes.
What about Horror, Romance, Thrillers, Westerns and any other genre? What is so special about SF?
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True, it's an award for a certain type of literature, just as many 'music' competitions are never going to be won by hip hop, electro or rock styles, only cello and pianoforte performances darling.
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However, beyond the obvious fact of their fans thinking them really good, why should the Literary Establishment give awards to SF authors? SF culture exists outside literary culture. It has its own canon, its own conventions and its own community, which is inward-looking. Why then should it be resentful of being ignored by the literary world?
To be honest, if Michael Chabon isn't bent out of shape that his SF/mystery hybrid The Yiddish Policemen's Union didn't score him a second Pulitzer or National Book Award to keep the Hugo and Nebula trophies company, I can deal with my insular resentment.
What really gets up my nose is the idea that "literary culture" is some pristine club that has to be protected from the grubby proles. Well, here's a newsflash: When it comes to American literary values, I'd rather read (and re-read) John Crowley, Gene Wolfe, Chabon himself and a dozen others than Philip Roth's latest over-rated peek up his own prolapsed arse. Could it be within the realm of possibility that Elmore Leonard and Richard Stark said more worth listening to about the American Grain than the painfully detailed adulterous gyrations of John Updike's New England Brahman zombies?
As the late Sir Kingsley Amis put it: Importance isn't important, good writing is. (And among his considerable list of "literary" novels and criticism, stand considerable works of SF, detective fiction and supernatural horror in The Alteration, The Riverside Villa Murders and The Green Man. I don't think Amis ever saw them as slumming.)
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What really gets up my nose is the idea that "literary culture" is some pristine club that has to be protected from the grubby proles.
Did anybody say that?
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True, it's an award for a certain type of literature, just as many 'music' competitions are never going to be won by hip hop, electro or rock styles, only cello and pianoforte performances darling.
Why should that be of any concern?
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It is also a necessary one: for any sub-culture to exist it must be distinct from mainstream culture.
Paul darling, you misunderstand. SF is mainstream. --- you mean I can't indulge in triumphalist boasting? fine then: it certainly isn't any less mainstream than literary fiction.
What about Horror, Romance, Thrillers, Westerns and any other genre? What is so special about SF?
Nothing; if the best novel is a romance novel then by god that should win the best novel prizes. Prizes should be genre blind except where they explicitly aren't.
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Why should that be of any concern?
If there were more awards - or as Keir notes, the existing ones were honest about their bias - it wouldn't. If something is proclaimed the best "book" or "music" or whatever, then it jolly well ought to be.
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And what about those art prizes? When did a painting of some kittens ever win an art prize? The Art Establishment is biased against the kitten-painting community.
By which I mean to say that there is a hierarchy of genres; you chaps might be peeved but think how the Romantic Fiction people feel.
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Ah, but ironic kittens painted by a well-connected artist who went to the right schools..
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Of course; that's appropriation, folks.
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By which I mean to say that there is a hierarchy of genres; you chaps might be peeved but think how the Romantic Fiction people feel.
oh dear lord Paul you must own shares in fire retardant clothing manufacturies.
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Didn't someone say 'Stop it' a page or so back? Oh yes, Emma. That Emma, of the SpecOps Literary Detectives division. Ignore her at your peril ;-) I think I'm going to banish this thread to The Well of Lost Plots.
Oh crap, I mentioned fforde in a Genre war. Better don my asbestos coat and go sit in the corner.
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Oh crap, I mentioned fforde in a Genre war. Better don my asbestos coat and go sit in the corner.
Lord, you're in for it now.
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This has been a bit of a bumper month for high-temperature PAS threads, no?
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This has been a bit of a bumper month for high-temperature PAS threads, no?
Amazing really. I could kind of understand it on the 'Feminist' thread, which Russell even admitted was a bit inflammatory, and I won't mention the eerie affair involving a red card.
But on a thread about Google in China and now a book thread? What's up with that? I only started this last December, but I feel that I've seen pretty much the best, and worst, of what PAS has to offer.
Still, on balance, the good stuff far out-ways the bad, so I shall stick around and see what happens next. Architecture, Music and Taxes. That should keep the home fires burning.
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Ah, but ironic kittens painted by a well-connected artist who went to the right schools..
Or if they were floated in a vat of formaldehyde, a la Damien Hirst?
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Books are crap, as Philip Larkin once observed. Architecture is where it's at.
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What really gets up my nose is the idea that "literary culture" is some pristine club that has to be protected from the grubby proles. Well, here's a newsflash: When it comes to American literary values, I'd rather read (and re-read) John Crowley, Gene Wolfe, Chabon himself and a dozen others than Philip Roth's latest over-rated peek up his own prolapsed arse. Could it be within the realm of possibility that Elmore Leonard and Richard Stark said more worth listening to about the American Grain than the painfully detailed adulterous gyrations of John Updike's New England Brahman zombies?
Unfair - you have mentioned two of America's most depressing authors!
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Don't fuck with the Janeites -- they eat Trekkies for afternoon tea.
You obviously haven't seen my Spock/Darcy slash-fic.
This has been a bit of a bumper month for high-temperature PAS threads, no?
I played the last time Paul got his hate on for sci fi. I get a pass this time round.
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I thought I'd give myself half a pass too. One of my 2010 resolutions is to do less retreading.
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Cecelia, think you mentioned Murakami up-thread. I just went in to Baci to find I head a $28 credit, which was exactly the price of Dance Dance Dance. Reading the blurb, I think he may be my new favourite author, and I haven't even read any yet. Where have I been?
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Ahhh. Murakami. I feel in love with him a few years ago when 'Kafka on the Shore' came out. I hope Dance, Dance, Dance lives up to expectations - I've read Norwegian Wood (?) and The Wind Up Bird Chronicle. He has a lovely soul, methinks.
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And what about those art prizes? When did a painting of some kittens ever win an art prize? The Art Establishment is biased against the kitten-painting community.
Straight realist paintings don't tend to win major art prizes anymore. It's not the boundaries of the activity, a thousand artists can paint a really good painting of some kittens. The boundaries are braying donkey toilets and selling all your possessions and living in the front window of a department store.
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Hold the phone! Australian's booklust fuels nationwide abstinence, according to ground breaking research conducted by Scandinavian furniture company IKEA.
In a survey of over 1000 Aussies, 45% of women and 25% of men would prefer a book than a bonk. This is sure to whet the appetite of both booksellers and the Vatican, while they formalise the canonisation of Mary MacKillop.
Ok, so I used a little artistic licence, but the salient points, as you will see, are entirely true. Whatthe?
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