Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Thatcher

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  • Angus Robertson, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    Yeah, but you can't say it.

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    Thatcher became PM in 1979, and retained that position for 11 years. In the 23 years since, the UK has not had another female PM. In the UK as in NZ, women are still woefully under-represented in Parliament.

    This is why we have to be careful about gendered insults. They contribute to a hostile environment for women in the political arena. This is not a petty consideration.

    Likewise for gendered compliments. When two women contest the same electorate seat, it’s “Battle of the Babes”. Moving on from this mindset is essential to having a truly representative democracy.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3470 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    So were, inter alia, Churchill, de Gaulle, Roosevelt and most subsequent US presidents and UK prime ministers.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4471 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    Nelson Mandela did far more good in the world that Thatcher ever did, and despite all that was heaped on him has outlived her - I know who my hero is.

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2181 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Lilith __,

    This shows why few women stay in politics for the long term: most of them cannot stand the very male system:
    http://www.headlineshirts.net/the-political-mind.html

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2613 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Met Thatcher once. 1985. 10 Downing Street. Nobody's mentioned that she actually wasnt very tall...I mean, I stand 5'7" in my bare feet and she really didnt.
    Annnd, her handshake was boneless (pretty common among those who shake hands all the time) and her eyes werent quite focused...
    Liked Dennis. Dennis & I had a drink. My blended Scotch sans ice as requested was shrug.
    I was helluva impressed by a REAL Turner up on the reception room wall.

    I utterly LOATHE all that Thatcher stood for, worked for, damaged countless people for - and, with equal intensity, loathe the squalid people in power here - for the moment- who stand for the same crappy human-rights annihiliatory
    richshits-enhancing policies...

    Putting my dancing hobnails on: you dont need an actual grave to dance on a hated enemy's head-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __,

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3470 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Islander,

    her handshake was boneless

    Known in my family as "the wet fish" after a dead Chch notable we would see at family occasions.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2613 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Ian McEwan’s assessment is good and thoughtful.

    But I like Polly Toynbee's better. Although it's not her usual turf, I think I think she nails it with some of the economic stuff towards the end.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 19019 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    I have never again experienced the bleak, pervasive sense of alienation she fostered in government.

    Best not come over to the UK for a while, then. It's getting pretty bad here and will get worse before it gets better.

    Some people seem to have forgotten what a basket case the UK was then. I am sure it could have been done better but it had to be done

    Now that I know a bit more about domestic history than I did in my teens and 20's, I can very grudgingly accept that there is a small nugget of truth in this argument. I remember being in primary school and coming home to a blacked-out house because the electricity workers were on strike, and walking past 20-foot high piles of rat-infested rubbish in the local park because the bin men were on strike.

    For my parents generation and older, it must've been pretty worrying. But 30 years on, we're still feeling the effects. Since we're talking about Iain Banks, one of his characters has a rant about it, in (I think) Complicity. The only line I can remember goes something like: 'trimming the fat in the name of efficiency, but you slashed so far to the bone that the marrow started leaking out'.

    Glenn Greenwald sums it up best for me: if you're a public figure like a politician, then you're open for criticism when you're alive, and when you're dead. To declare otherwise is usually an attempt to further an agenda and often rankly hypocritical. I don't recall anyone buttoning their lips 'out of respect' when Hugo Chavez died, and I really doubt that they will when Castro kicks it.

    So, anyway, I've been away for a while. What's been happening round here? Anything to drink? Coffee? Whiskey?

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Rich Lock,

    Whiskey?

    Nah, but the single malt whisky is in pretty good supply... slainte!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Wow. The Thatcher’s Dead street-party videos are starting to hit the wires. The one in Brixton seems to have gone on for hours (and ended up in some looting -- the people in the latest clips just need to go the fuck home, or to the pub). Here they are, dancing to The Specials’ ‘Ghost Town’:

    In some of the clips, it seems there’s no one who could even remember her, which is fascinating in itself. A generational hatred. See Ian McEwan’s observation about how people loved to hate her.

    I presume these are not the type of people who minister Chris Finlayson – who tweeted today that she had been “the greatest woman of the 20th century” – would have a lot of time for.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 19019 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Russell Brown,

    The Thatcher's Dead street-party

    I loathed her politics but I'm not happy she's dead. Old-fashioned I suppose.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2613 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    If I were Roger I’d be planning to be cremated, with my ashes scattered on Sir Rob Jones’ farm. That would deny the bastards the chance to dance on my grave.

    Won't work for Thatcher, though. The Lady's not for burning.

    Ba-doom, tish! Eyethangyewlaydeezangennlemen.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason,

    G Edgeler: Terrorist? Patriot surely.

    Islander:

    Annnd, her handshake was boneless

    Obviously not one of the bone people.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1502 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason, in reply to Rich Lock,

    The Lady’s not for burning.

    But she might rust.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1502 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Ross Mason,

    G Edgeler: Terrorist? Patriot surely.

    Are the two really contradictory?

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3011 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    Are the two really contradictory?

    One person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. No contradiction in this case, in my book, Mandela was entirely justified.

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 2167 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Angus Robertson,

    Yeah, but you can’t say it.

    Can and should. The organisation he helped found planted land mines, conducted bombings (inlcuding, for example, shopping centres and bars) and torture. Many (most?) of its civilian death were black.

    etc.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3011 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    Are the two really contradictory?

    Just depends who is on which side.

    Dict: terrorist
    in the modern sense, 1947, especially in reference to Jewish tactics against the British in Palestine -- earlier it was used of extremist revolutionaries in Russia (1866); and Jacobins during the French Revolution (1795) -- from Fr. terroriste;

    Yes...that nice Israeli Prime Minister Begin.

    Anyone who fires a gun at you when there has been no declaration of war. Otherwise they would be "the enemy".

    Convenient description of anyone who is doing anything I don't like them partaking in.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1502 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Chris Waugh,

    Mandela was entirely justified.

    Wow.

    "Entirely"?

    The Truth and Reconciliation Commission called some of the actions of the para-military organisation he founded, and would not denounce, a "gross violation of human rights". Of the 200 civilians who died in its terror, 140 were black.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3011 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    Alright, it's a fair cop. I think he was justified in taking up arms. Shouldn't've phrased it as I did.

    Beijing • Since Jan 2007 • 2167 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Hebe,

    Twatcock FTW.
    What does that mean?

    Which bit? “Twatcock” is the PAS generic double-or-nothing-gendered insult; “FTW” is apparently “for the win”, as teh yoof put it these days, or so I hear.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 925 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Ross Mason,

    But she might rust.

    Ashes to ashes...

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    And America's Founding Fathers would have been classified as terrorists in their day.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4403 posts Report Reply

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