Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Thatcher

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  • JacksonP, in reply to Danielle,

    Shipbuilding

    Good call. Tearjerker that it is.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2011 • 2104 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Okay … five minute break.

    If you can judge a person by the company they keep … Thatcher’s most important mentor, Keith Joseph.

    A vile man who gave speeches about the working-class birth rate threatening “our human stock”. Who, in the wake of riots in Liverpool, proposed a “managed rundown” of Merseyside, on the basis that there was no point in trying to help such people. Who told West Indian immigrants to go back and grow bananas".

    There’s a fascinating BBC doco called Tory Tory! Tory! about the development of Thatcherism. Some of those people were basically fascists.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18512 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    Reckon they should go with Ken Loach’s suggestion to privatise her funeral: http://dangerousminds.net/comments/lets_privatize_her_funeral_film_director_ken_loach_on_plans_for_thatchers

    How should we honor her? Let’s privatize her funeral. Put it out to competitive tender and accept the cheapest bid. It’s what she would have wanted.

    It’s not even disrespectful.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1434 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Lilith __,

    I think I prefer discussion that has no name-calling, though

    I think it's an age-and-place thing because usually I agree. Russell explains it well with his comment about the profound alienation and division Thatcher's government left behind.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2552 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    I think one of the things that enabled her to be so successful was that many on the left were more concerned with correct use of language than the physical actions of government.

    If I ever manage to write a book about this endless, endless goddamned internet argument from which I can apparently never escape, it will be called: Identity Politics Ruined the Left! How These Dudes Know What's Really Important And The Rest of Us Should Just Shut Up.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3623 posts Report Reply

  • BeagleLad,

    How about this crackly classic from one of Manchester's favorite sons Ewan MacColl (also father of the late and great Kirsty). Cuttingly brilliant and well worth the full listen...
    "The Grocer" :

    Auckland • Since Apr 2013 • 1 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Hebe,

    I think I prefer discussion that has no name-calling, though

    I think it’s an age-and-place thing because usually I agree. Russell explains it well with his comment about the profound alienation and division Thatcher’s government left behind.

    I totally agree that her legacy is toxic. I remember the breathtaking scariness of her regime. But I don’t think name-calling helps. Excoriating analysis of her words and actions, fine; personal insults, meh. It’s too easy and too unhelpful. IMO. :-)

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3410 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams, in reply to JacksonP,

    Good call. Tearjerker that it is.

    +1. Its interesting reading what the likes of Costello and Loach say of her passing.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2191 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Raymond A Francis,

    That is ,for someone from the left, a fair summing up of the Lady
    Some people seem to have forgotten what a basket case the UK was then
    I am sure it could have been do better but it had to be done

    Perhaps that's a 20th Century lesson: don't allow your economy to degrade so terribly that it appears that extremists are the only people who can fix it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18512 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi,

    Mogwai's George Square Thatcher Death Party.(from 2011) has a title that sounds like word salad at first glance. Stonkin' song, though:

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 846 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Final word before I go and make TV ...

    Blame must also accrue to the British Labour movement, whose disappearance down the Militant Tendency rabbit-hole played a great part in Thatcher winning successive elections.

    They fell prey to the very divisions Thatcher looked to foster. You really had to despair of them at the time.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18512 posts Report Reply

  • Mike O'Connell,

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 83 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Russell Brown,

    +1

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2552 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    don't allow your economy to degrade so terribly that it appears that extremists are the only people who can fix it.

    Relevant to the materialist-cultural tension in the left that Danielle alludes to above. Though gendering it, sheesh. :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16272 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Mike O'Connell,

    Heh.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2552 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    As others have commented: One should only speak good of the dead. She is dead. Good.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2265 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Whenever a big name like this passes, I get to wondering how exceptional they really were, or whether they were mostly a product of their times. In this case, I just don't know, but it seems to me that if it wasn't Thatcher it would have been someone else. Reagan was pulling the same crap in the US, and it's not like he was some genius. He also got put on a pedestal post-mortem. Monetarism was (and still is) a massive team effort, and the pedestalization is a form of auto-back patting. So powerful that in NZ it was a set of reforms initiated by the goddamned Labour Party.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8305 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to BenWilson,

    mostly a product of their times. Monetarism was (and still is) a massive team effort,

    It’s easy to forget now how corrosive- and out-of-control- inflation was in the 70s. It was the biggest economic concern in developed/western economies. It was a major factor in triggering industrial action to make sure wages kept up, which also fueled inflation, etc.
    Monetarism doesn’t have many nice features. Horrible effects, by and large, and it came with an evil set of justifications around private wealth, taxation, and markets that’s led to obscene concentrations of wealth, here and everywhere.
    But it did contain inflation better than anything else that was tried. And that in great part explains the way it swept around the globe to become economic “orthodoxy”.
    (Ok, what produces and/or controls inflation is contentious. But that's what the monetarists say, anyway :))

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1434 posts Report Reply

  • Angus Robertson, in reply to JacksonP,

    As the pragmatism included the brain fart of floating the New Zealand dollar, yeah, if only there HAD been an alternative.

    The main alternative is what just occurred in Cyprus, except more so.

    Auckland • Since May 2007 • 984 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Russell Brown,

    That is ,for someone from the left, a fair summing up of the Lady
    Some people seem to have forgotten what a basket case the UK was then
    I am sure it could have been do better but it had to be done

    Perhaps that’s a 20th Century lesson: don’t allow your economy to degrade so terribly that it appears that extremists are the only people who can fix it.

    Also don't assume that because they created a solution that it was the only viable solution.

    While it is true that some of the things disestablished by that govt were inefficient or just plain useless - the way they chose to do it was worse and what replaced some of those things was distinctly worse.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3217 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Would you ever use it to describe a man?

    To be fair I have heard old very camp men sometimes described using that word. But yeah we even made a word expressly for this:

    Twatcock FTW.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3217 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    Margaret Thatcher called Nelson Mandela a terrorist, so this song was doubly pleasing back then

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2552 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    Twatcock FTW.

    What does that mean? I have seen it before on PAS.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2552 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Russell Brown,

    the British Labour movement, whose disappearance down the Militant Tendency rabbit-hole played a great part in Thatcher winning successive elections

    The Militant Tendency never reached the leadership levels of Labour. The first election Thatcher won was of course lost by the (old right) Callaghan and subsequent elections saw Labour led by the fairly soft left Foot and Kinnock.

    It was the right-wing media, led by Murdoch, that turned the moderate Kinnock into a demon baby-eater. That media was only willing to ease off on Labour when the latter had elected a leader who was about as leftist as George Bush *and* the Tories had become so risible that the right were going to get an alternate government if they liked it or not.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4359 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Hebe,

    Margaret Thatcher called Nelson Mandela a terrorist

    Nelson Mandela was a Terrorist.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 2988 posts Report Reply

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