Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The Digital Natives

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  • BenWilson, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    It's definitely righteous to have taken steps to avoid having the internet fucked up.

    What do you expect him to do, write a compiler?

    As the leader of the Mana party I don't really expect him to have any more tech savvy than your average MP. But the leader of the Internet Party? I'd like it if they could tell me what a compiler was without having to ask the geek standing beside them. Well, if I was going to vote for them, which I sure as shit am not going to now.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8737 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    The old tension between the techy lower-stack geeks and the layer 7 'what is it used for' folk continues.

    Most young people don't care about the pumbing. They just want a future that connects - and flushes - when needed. Guess which sort the Internet Party knows there are more of?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16996 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to BenWilson,

    You can, however, buy advertising. You can get the Mana message out far, far harder than without money.

    And ? This National Govt has shown complete manipulation of the Electoral system totally within MMP and the public have voted that that's ok.
    Hey. Dotcom, Hone. I truly believe they, with Harre are far more pleasing to my stomach than Key Co. It totally feels like this InternetMana have the interests of the people. Just because Hone's brown doesn't mean he cant understand Dotcom. The guy is blatant about his position which doesnt even get a mention in negotiations with Mana and what a fucked spot to be in . I admire his attempt to protest and Hone's to see the bigger picture. . If I had lots of money ,I'd share it around, Hypocrisy of democracy. Hell, I think John Key is the joke.I think his company is my nightmare. Hone, Laila, I can get jiggy with that. See how they floats ya boat. I'd love to see a shake up. Or are people scared of lil'old brown not meant to be wealthy Hone and big rich Kim Dotcom finding a unified cause when both feel shat on. Warner Bros have been a significant influence in NZ since ages (Herc?) To change our laws made me feel like we lost our identity... I like Kim announcing what his money is doing . I like that he is trying to defend himself, I'm rambling, I'll go away now...

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6357 posts Report Reply

  • Moz, in reply to BenWilson,

    But the leader of the Internet Party? I'd like it if they could tell me ...

    ...more about the internet than, say, the leader of ACT can about consumer rights? More than the leader of The Conservative Party can tell us about conservation? Than the leader of National can about anything outside our major cities? Than the Minister for Conservation can about our conservation estate?

    Our politicians have pushed that particular bar very low indeed.

    I'd be happy with a party leader who can talk about the major policies in the major area of concern for their party. And honestly, I'd be shocked if Lalia Harre couldn't do that. Assuming she can't just because she's ... what? Not yet done so?

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 499 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to BenWilson,

    Well, if I was going to vote for them, which I sure as shit am not going to now.

    Fussy ;)

    So you expect an expert geek? To lead a political Party? I think it's "youth" that's the direction they are heading . That's the connect. Youth use the internet . Some of the older generation do. They dont want the old vote. They want the future vote.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6357 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Moz,

    ? Not yet done so?

    Thanks Moz. This shit is fresh! I wanna see it play out. Plus no Party gets to judge.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6357 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    If I had lots of money, I'd share it around

    damn straight. I regret not being wealthier.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16996 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Sacha,

    damn straight. I regret not being wealthier.

    Me too Sacha. My life is ok tho. But man I'd love to be able to shower those that never get anything.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6357 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Sacha,

    The old tension between the techy lower-stack geeks and the layer 7 ‘what is it used for’ folk continues.

    I don't think this is an example of that at all. Layer 7 people do at least typically use the internet heavily, even if they have no idea how it works.

    Most young people don’t care about the pumbing. They just want a future that connects – and flushes – when needed.

    They do, however, know that when the plumbing is broken, you hire a plumber, not a lawyer.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8737 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Moz,

    And honestly, I’d be shocked if Lalia Harre couldn’t do that.

    I'm sure she'll do an admirable job of pushing her long held and well known agenda. I don't even have a problem with that agenda. I just thought that the Internet Party might have been a change, something new. I thought it might actually be something that might reach out to more people than are already covered by the existing parties. Silly me.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8737 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    So you expect an expert geek? To lead a political Party? I think it’s “youth” that’s the direction they are heading .

    So they recycle an old politician? Hmmm.

    And ? This National Govt has shown complete manipulation of the Electoral system totally within MMP and the public have voted that that’s ok.

    Look, I'm not saying I dislike Harre, or Mana, nor am I against Dotcom completely bankrolling them to the tune of millions if that's his bag. I also don't think he deserves to be extradited for what he did, and don't really have anything against him. I hope his money helps Mana grow their vote.

    But I also can't feel any love for this "Internet" party. I really no longer see the point of it. I'm hoping Harre can enlighten me why I'd vote for IP rather than Mana. Because if she can't do that, then whatever buzz they had picked up is going to come crashing down in a screaming heap, real soon. And as I see it, she doesn't even have an interest in doing that. Because Mana party votes are votes for her. To her personally, it would make no difference.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8737 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    The Girl from IP Mana...
    I think the 'Internet' referred to in the Internet Party,
    embraces the concept of social connectivity,
    rather than the engineering side...

    To be more accurate it could be the App Party
    but that triggers with 'Apartheid' and 'Apathy',
    and NZIP was never gonna float...

    how about Mañana.
    the 'Tomorrow Party'?
    no?

    But it is what it is, buckle up,
    Laila Harre and the Rebel Alliance
    are here to kick Supreme Chancellor Key
    and his clone cronies, into a black hole!

    More popcorn for row 23!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 5169 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to BenWilson,

    So they recycle an old politician? Hmmm

    I hear there's still pure DOS ticking at the heart of Windows...

    needs must...

    :- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 5169 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to BenWilson,

    So they recycle an old politician? Hmmm.

    If it's the youth vote they are after, they wont remember Laila from when they were in nappies. ;) She's a newby and if kids find Key attractive, Laila kicks arse.
    They did need a confident seasoned person and one acceptable to Mana. I think she is the right mix for both Parties. Who knows, we could end up with a Socialist Party out of this.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6357 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Sacha,

    As a techy lower stack geek myself, I agree wholeheartedly.

    If they'd had parliamentary democracy in 15th century Germany, I wonder if they'd have had a "Printing Party" and people whinging that its leader really didn't have a deep enough knowledge of movable type.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4501 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    If they’d had parliamentary democracy in 15th century Germany, I wonder if they’d have had a “Printing Party” and people whinging that its leader really didn’t have a deep enough knowledge of movable type.

    One thing is for sure, if there was a leader who couldn't even read or write, there would be plenty of people who would say that didn't matter at all, so long as they showed enough pedigree. Because there will always be courtiers, calling themselves "realists", who think that movements form around the internecine machinations of elite cliques, rather than the underlying technologies that drive them.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8737 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to BenWilson,

    Bill English is the minister of finance but he is nether an accountant or an economist. He is an expert in English literature. But that's ok because he has a ministry to do the technical stuff. His job is to make decisions on behalf of us. What's more important, is who do we trust to make good decisions.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2807 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to steven crawford,

    Sold. I'm voting for Bill English, because Layer 7.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8737 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to BenWilson,

    Excellent choice! There is a packet of peanuts waiting for you up at cabinet club:)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2807 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    I was expecting a job. Since I've got no qualifications or ideological alignment, I'm the perfect candidate. But I'm probably a wee bit too young.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8737 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    Anyone else thinking IPMana joining a Lab/Green government would make it considerably more difficult for a Labour/Green minister of justice to rule against KCD being extradited, even if they favoured that on its merits?
    The claim from Key (parroted widely) that that’s the whole point, Kim Dotcom is buying a shot at foiling his extradition, is just not credible.
    Hone and Laila have both said it’s never been raised. They don’t strike me as lying. f
    Further, Mana don’t have it to sell. They have zero chance of getting the Justice portfolio. A Lab/Green govt would be wildly stupid to agree to it in coalition talks. What could Mana threaten? Not to go to National. Another election wouldn’t help them either.
    If we do get a change of Govt, helped by IPMana, this will be hanging over them like the sword of doom. All up, I reckon it makes extradition more likely.
    But maybe Key is a little rattled. Maybe it’s facing an opponent who’s much wealthier? More likely: the IP entering is likely to repeatedly focus attention on his series of statements surrounding what and when he knew about the spying and the raid. TV3’s timelines look quite convincing. This is one of his weakest points. Not something National will want the election to keep in the media.

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1599 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    There's a very good argument that indirect copyright infringement shouldn't be a criminal matter. It would be reasonable for a future government, in general but especially if the court finds against Dotcom, to look at reforming our copyright legislation to make this clear.

    If they passsed such a change, then Dotcom could in theory still be extradited as his conduct was illegal under NZ law at the time of the offence. But I would think that he'd have a very good case to avoid extradition.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4501 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    The claim from Key (parroted widely) that that’s the whole point, Kim Dotcom is buying a shot at foiling his extradition, is just not credible.

    I’ll give you that it’s disputable. But it’s not incredible. Dotcom showed no interest at all in NZ politics until he was facing these charges*, and his party formed it’s most basic principles in direct opposition to what is happening to him. He is pouring huge amounts of money into it, and would appear to be quite willing to hand over most of what it seemed to stand for initially just to get a real practical shot at having a representative in Parliament. That comes across as very desperate to me.

    Hone and Laila have both said it’s never been raised. They don’t strike me as lying

    Well politicians are natural born liars, so their body language is hardly going to give much away. But even if it’s true that it has not been overtly discussed, you have to be willfully blind not to see that it’s a massive agenda here. Dotcom doesn’t even have to say anything to them, they just have to like having his money to spend, in order to wish to strongly protect his rights, especially since they are openly sanctioned to do exactly the thing that all politicians most want, to raise their profile and increase their power.

    If we are so ready to raise this argument every single time National works in the interests of power and money, what stops it from being a compelling argument here? Nothing.

    Which brings us to the more useful argument. It’s not about whether or not Dotcom is buying influence. That’s ridiculously obviously the case. It’s about whether it is right for him to do so. Whether it is ethical to be bought in such a way, whether our system is meant to work like this. And that is where the objections of the likes of Key fall down. That is precisely how our system works. All that is objectionable is how blatant it is. That it’s only a tiny bit more blatant than the obvious connection between Key’s colossal wealth and his accelerated ride to being the most powerful man in NZ. Key doesn’t want that shoved in everyone’s face by some fat foreign barbarian that he is just a leaner more Kiwi version himself, a person who made his wealth in a way that many find highly objectionable, is hard to pin down on any principles, and has no scruples about using political power to advantage his mates at every turn, or allying even with complete twits like Banks just to cement that.

    *Other than to buy a politician to ease his right to reside here, that is. It didn’t seem to matter to him at all what that politician stood for, that he was virtually the antithesis of the Mana Party.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8737 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell, in reply to BenWilson,

    Maybe I'm blind but you have to trust me it's not willful :)

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 1599 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    They have zero chance of getting the Justice portfolio.

    A low chance, maybe, depending on the extent to which they hold the balance of power. But getting the Justice portfolio is obviously not the only way to wield influence over this. They just have to make it clear what they want and how much they want it, and Justice can take it's impartial and majestic course <sarcasm>.

    What could Mana threaten? Not to go to National.

    To not support the government. That could easily be enough to give a concession over, it's not like Labour's got a horn to do KDC in anyway. If Labour can't form a government without them, then that could actually mean a National Party minority government. I really don't think that Labour would want to go through that, just to hold out on a minor issue.

    This is, of course, IF Mana/IP hold the balance of power, which is, in itself, highly unlikely at this point. I think it's more unlikely since IP made a leadership decision that will be unlikely to reach out to a new demographic of support. They're banking on the Mana brand itself, with sufficient money. I hope they do better than they did last time. I really do.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8737 posts Report Reply

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