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Speaker: TPPA: It's Extreme

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  • ScottY,

    Yes, it's a copyright thread

    Not if we talk about patent law.

    Some of the patent law provisions are potentially concerning (or good, depending on your viewpoint), because they will extend the scope of what is patentable to include things that currently are not patentable in NZ - e.g. methods of medical treatment of humans.

    These matters should be debated in public.

    Yorke of The Atatu • Since Feb 2009 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Finally a thread you can get your teeth into ScottY!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8598 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Everyone else is too scared :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16794 posts Report Reply

  • ScottY,

    Finally a thread you can get your teeth into ScottY!

    Everyone else is too scared :)

    Me too, actually.

    Yorke of The Atatu • Since Feb 2009 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Withers,

    The problem is most Kiwis have no idea what any of this means....and their eyes glaze over when you try to explain it even if they ask.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 280 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Bell,

    OK, copyright and patents are a shambles and the way US corporations are abusing the intended purpose of copyright is predictably insane.

    But I do support geographic protection of product descriptors like champagne, stilton, parmesan, cheddar and so on. If you make a cheese, why try to pass it off as something that originated in another country on the other side of the world? Market your own local product name instead. Needless to say, that should apply to international use of New Zealand products, as well. The counter-argument is where do you stop, but there's a difference between growing a grape variety and selling the end product as champagne.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 47 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Chris Bell,

    The patent system is generally OK, although the proposed changes are, as Scott says, concerning.

    I agree with you that copyright is a shambles, and I'm also reasonably happy with the geographic protection of product descriptors, for the reasons you've outlined (although cheddar, parmesan and stilton are pretty darn generic. Are they on the list?)

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Bell,

    I would add, however, that I DON'T think copyright is the right mechanism for protecting geographic indicators.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 47 posts Report Reply

  • James Butler,

    Would it be stretching geographic protection too far to prevent South American-grown fruit from using the name "Kiwifruit"? :-)

    It would be contentious to interpret the name as "Fruit originating from New Zealand, and thus known as 'Kiwi'" rather than "Fruit which looks like a fat flightless bird", but the thought amuses me nonetheless.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2009 • 801 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Steve Withers,

    The problem is most Kiwis have no idea what any of this means....and their eyes glaze over when you try to explain it even if they ask.

    True - the various consequences need to be turned into realistic examples that are easy to convey

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16794 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Bell, in reply to Rich Lock,

    Hi Rich, I don’t know whether they’re on the list. I do know that people in those regions would prefer it if no one else could market products using those names.

    I hadn’t finished reading the post [see, I hadn't even checked who wrote it!] but wanted to comment on that point before I was sidetracked ;-). I guess you might argue that they _became_ generic for the very reason that those who make ‘real’ Stilton want to protect it. Stilton and Parmesan _shouldn’t_ be generic. The goal should be more about applying manufacturing standards to what you’re able to sell under those names, rather than geographic exclusivity.

    I don’t have anything new to add to the debate, but I did work for a couple of years in copyright. Along the line its original, simple purpose was sidelined. Around the world there are people still working in copyright who are doing sensible, worthwhile work to protect and administer creative people’s rights. But the positive aspects have been almost entirely swamped by corporate greed.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 47 posts Report Reply

  • Rick Shera,

    @ScottY - yes, there are major issues with patent changes as well but I wanted to focus on the copyright and TM ones. Pharmac is clearly a target although I heard Susy Frankel of VUW suggest that (as much as it might like to) US is probably not aiming to do away with pharmac altogether but to significantly curtail its buying power by restricting flow of generics. Some of the anti-patent gurus around will be looking at this I'm sure.

    @Rick Lock/Chris Bell GIs aren't actually listed and probably will not be in any final treaty. Although, aparently, Chile has some of it's GIs listed in the existing P4 treaty (which TPPA is building on). There is also some wording in the proposed US text suggesting that generic names would be excluded from GI protection. Suspect that the GI clauses are an attempt to end-game the EU which of course wants GIs for everything.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2008 • 22 posts Report Reply

  • Rick Shera, in reply to Steve Withers,

    Agree - which is why those who have concerns need to find examples that resonate with the general public. Parallel import limits clearly fall into that category, as does 3 strikes internet termination.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2008 • 22 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    I can't be bothered getting angry about this. The New Zealand Labour Party refused to make international agreements a matter for parliament rather than the executive (as they are, ironically, in the United States). There's a chance to soften the worst parts of this, but the die is cast. Cabinet will do what it wants.

    My only hope is that we agree to this, in its almost entirely, and that the next government with half a spine pulls us out unilaterally.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2136 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    Ah, perhaps I'm not that cynical.

    The People's Republic of … • Since Nov 2006 • 2136 posts Report Reply

  • Whoops,

    Would it be stretching geographic protection too far to prevent South American-grown fruit from using the name "Kiwifruit"? :-)

    It would be contentious to interpret the name as "Fruit originating from New Zealand, and thus known as 'Kiwi'" rather than "Fruit which looks like a fat flightless bird", but the thought amuses me nonetheless.

    Wasn't it called the Chinese Gooseberry for a while (after we ah, liberated a sample from China)?

    here • Since Apr 2007 • 103 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    When the revolution comes first against the wall is the marketing bozo who named them "kiwifruit" and stole our national identity - living in the US I got fed up with amused Americans wondering why I thought I was a small brown furry fruit, I had to stop referring to myself as a "kiwi"

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2179 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Paul Campbell,

    To be fair, that's cos the bloody yanks called them "kiwi" rather than "kiwifruit"

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16794 posts Report Reply

  • DeepRed, in reply to Rick Shera,

    Agree - which is why those who have concerns need to find examples that resonate with the general public. Parallel import limits clearly fall into that category, as does 3 strikes internet termination.

    I'm brainstorming an idea or 2 right now as I type this.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 4365 posts Report Reply

  • Matt Crawford,

    Pardon my ignorance, but does anyone know the position on TPP that our domestic polictical parties have adopted?

    Wellington • Since Dec 2006 • 48 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming,

    Greens – generally and specifically against it

    Labour has been pushing the TPPA since it began – they just want it to be more open

    ACT seem generally in favour of completely dropping our trousers for the Yanks (jump to Tariffs), although the only mention of the TPPA is in Heather Roy’s diary, where she chides us for not going far enough.

    National don’t appear to want to put their trade policy on their website but we can generally guess that they, as the Government of the Day, are in favour of it and Groser’s speech to the US-NZ Partnership Forum in February was almost indecent in the way he lay on his back and threw his legs in the air.

    The Maori Party don’t appear to have any policy on trade.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2173 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to DeepRed,

    Agree - which is why those who have concerns need to find examples that resonate with the general public. Parallel import limits clearly fall into that category, as does 3 strikes internet termination.

    I'm brainstorming an idea or 2 right now as I type this.

    One I thought of was: That nice, new, totally legit, iPhone that you bought in the US for half the NZ price? Yeah, you'll be sacrificing that to NZ Customs at the border.

    The pit from whence crawl… • Since Mar 2007 • 3910 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Sacha,

    New Zealanders, of course, never use diminutive nicknames for anything.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3661 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Danielle,

    And Americans are never defensive

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16794 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Danielle,

    I still prefer ‘Chinese gooseberries’ because
    a)it acknowledges country of origin
    b)hairiness and, importantly
    c)greeness.
    “kiwifruit” is a branding stupidity- have HATED the name ever since it was invented by whatsit/whosit ad firm-

    mind you, "Zespri"TM was far worse (and totally unsuccessful.)

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

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