Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: The Up Front Guides: Relationships for the Unisexual

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  • Sacha, in reply to Jackie Clark,

    Are vampires sparkly and twinkly?

    tween ones

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16659 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to BenWilson,

    To be honest, at the time, I wondered if it was a setup, some kind of stupid team prank.

    I would too. But Ben ,I could also imagine she may have thought, "tonight I wanna find me someone tall dark and handsome" and she may have been watching you all night, drinking up the courage. Let's face it, you are pretty polite.;)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6195 posts Report Reply

  • Phil fryer,

    7 Billion humans on the planet,never found 2 the same !
    But most just wanna get laid, if that works out well -it can lead to more,specially for the young breeders,however I find maturatiy these days,leads to a overwhelming desire for independance,by both males & females, & while the mating instinct continues,the desire for monogamus relationships,pretty disapated I enjoy many lovers both short & long term, as do some of the fems I "hit on">
    So emotional intelligence & confidence are attractive,arent we just here to have fun,
    without intentionally harming others, the worst that can happen is thanks-but no thanks !

    Laingholm • Since Mar 2011 • 34 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark, in reply to Phil fryer,

    Unless you meet this guy. Luckily for us, there are relatively few true psychos in this world!

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3123 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Let's face it, you are pretty polite.;)

    Which can just be wimpy. It was a really strange approach, but the thing that most makes me think it was a setup was the following action - I did attempt to strike up conversation, to find out what the fuck was up, but after the rejection of the first blunt offer, she refused to speak any further. I did think that maybe I was the target of some kind of bet which she had lost outright. If so, I'm glad I didn't go through with it.

    I only tell this story to show that even horny straight men can be put off by the wrong approach, even by an attractive woman. I can't be sure that I didn't miss out on the love of my life, but that kind of action isn't the kind of thing I like in anyone (the sudden swing from wanting a fuck to not even wanting to talk), so I doubt it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8521 posts Report Reply

  • Max Rose, in reply to BenWilson,

    I only tell this story to show that even horny straight men can be put off by the wrong approach, even by an attractive woman.

    Well yes, YMMV and all that. I think the value of a thread such as this is sharing the range of personal experience and responses, rather than trying to draw conclusions or state universal laws.

    Having said that, I'm going to go straight ahead and propose a generalisation. When you say that "even horny straight men can be put off by the wrong approach", I'd amend that to "horny straight inexperienced men can be put off by the wrong approach", if by "wrong" you mean "crudely direct and sexual". You said you were a 19-year-old virgin at the time, and in the same situation I would no doubt have been scared witless too. A combination of performance pressure, a slut-shaming upbringing, the suspicion that it can't be real and an expectation that your first should be special (more generalisations) would naturally make young inexperienced men afraid of such an advance. But I think that older, more experienced men value sexual confidence and forthrightness in a woman.

    I remember in my early twenties, after only two or three sexual partners, having a brief fling with a strange but fascinating woman a few years older than me. After our first time in bed, as she was leaving I asked her when we'd see each other again and she said "Maybe not. I only did that because I fancied you, you know." I was shocked: I thought men were supposed to be the shallow ones only interested in one-night stands and physical attractiveness! Women want love and intimacy and kittens and rainbows! Well, I guess you could call that a learning experience, but it still took me a while to understand and relish the reality of some women's raw sexual desire.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2011 • 81 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    where's the beef...

    Romance may be driven by nature but there is something special about that attraction, that desire, that has to do with who we are as opposed to what we are and that something goes beyond sex and deeper into the spirit of being.

    I love this song...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4952 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    something goes beyond sex and deeper into the spirit of being.

    See, it's my perception that sex goes all the way to the core of my spirit of being.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4366 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to BenWilson,

    I can't be sure that I didn't miss out on the love of my life,

    Yes you can. Are you not with her now?

    But I will agree. Sounds a bit rude if nothing else eh, or arrogant? Not the invite but the later response.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6195 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Max Rose,

    But I think that older, more experienced men value sexual confidence and forthrightness in a woman.

    And I'd go ahead and amend that to "some" more experienced.... if I would agree with

    sharing the range of personal experience and responses, rather than trying to draw conclusions or state universal laws.

    and I do agree with that :)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6195 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    You said you were a 19-year-old virgin at the time, and in the same situation I would no doubt have been scared witless too.

    I wasn't scared witless. I just wasn't attracted by that approach.

    But I think that older, more experienced men value sexual confidence and forthrightness in a woman.

    It didn't strike me as confident.

    A combination of performance pressure, a slut-shaming upbringing, the suspicion that it can't be real and an expectation that your first should be special (more generalisations) would naturally make young inexperienced men afraid of such an advance.

    Yes, lot of generalizations there. I'm sure there's plenty of guys that would, even on their first go, have thought that was just cool, exactly like a Playboy story. I'm not one of them, and it doesn't require that I fit any of those stereotypes. It just requires me not to be a walking penis.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8521 posts Report Reply

  • Christopher Dempsey, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    In the end it seems to come down to animalistic behaviour, we are driven by our DNA to reproduce along a line that is predetermined by nature.

    Yes. Though that theory flys out the window in my case, so I'll just plump for the theoretical construct that you are driven to reproduce only while I'm driven to have fun. *tounge in cheek*

    But wait, there's more.
    Romance may be driven by nature but there is something special about that attraction, that desire, that has to do with who we are as opposed to what we are and that something goes beyond sex and deeper into the spirit of being. It is a part of a universal conciousness that some would call God and, I guess, that is why they say God is love.

    No. Take it from me, and be rest assured, Gaia is love. *winks*

    Parnell / Tamaki-Auckland… • Since Sep 2008 • 642 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Christopher Dempsey,

    o. Take it from me, and be rest assured, Gaia is love. *winks*

    Well, aside from mass spawning (erratic rate of success); opportunisitic rape (depending on male plugs or secretions, relatively successful depending on species): herd/group intercourse (dependent upon species & every animal being at a stage of readiness, with varying degrees of successful births) - o, I could go on but wont.

    Papatuanuku has been around for plus 4 billion years.
    The most successful species so far are bacteria (fungi closely follow them.)
    Humans? A blip in the amazing spectrum of life.

    I dont really think bacteria or fungi feel any kind of romantic attraction(nor any of the other examples I have posted above. Hormonal? Group drives? O yes.)

    And srsly- humans are actually also subject to these matters - and a diffuse range of others-

    cheers! And good luck with that blind date!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to BenWilson,

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 4952 posts Report Reply

  • Max Rose, in reply to Emma Hart,

    So, while I still attract interest from men even though I’m in a relationship, I don’t really have much to compare it with – especially a fair comparison, because the last time I was single for more than six days I was nineteen.

    That would make for difficult comparisons. I guess a lot of the anecdata to support the hypothesis comes from serial monogamists who would generally prefer to be in a relationship. When in a relationship, they note the number of "interested" people that they might have an interest in, and there might be several throughout the duration of the relationship. When single, the passes might come at the same rate, but they might hook up with the first suitable suitor. The first data point ends the experiment, and all they remember is a long lonely gap.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2011 • 81 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Max Rose,

    When single, the passes might come at the same rate, but they might hook up with the first suitable suitor. The first data point ends the experiment, and all they remember is a long lonely gap.

    Does not compute. Either the gap is long or it isn't.
    What the gap means to the person is another matter.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16659 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Sacha,

    Either the gap is long or it isn't.

    Our perception of the passage of time, though, is extraordinary subjective.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4366 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Emma Hart,

    True, but that doesn't address Max's last sentence. Either there are further passes or none.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16659 posts Report Reply

  • Max Rose, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    "But I think that older, more experienced men value sexual confidence and forthrightness in a woman."

    And I'd go ahead and amend that to "some" more experienced

    Sure, I know I'm generalising again. But beyond empirical extrapolation from my own experience and those of some of my friends, I think there is an argument to be made for it, based on certain assumptions and observations.

    First, I'm assuming that such a man is looking for an honest and mutually satisfying experience. I hadn't thought about the sort of men who might pursue a coy woman with declarations of eternal love just so he can get a notch on his bedpost: I'm talking about rakes, not cads.

    Given that, I'll make the assertion that women who are strong, open-minded, sexually experienced and confident in their own desires make the best lovers. That's partly based on my own experience, which may not be a statistically significant sample (except within certain geographical and demographic domains), and on reading that is admittedly more literary than quantitative, but I wouldn't have thought it to be a monstrously controversial statement.

    Finally, I'm not talking about what a man might be looking for in a life partner, since my definition of the word "experienced" kind of presupposes a certain degree of promiscuity.

    So, to qualify my original assertion, I'd say that for men looking for an honest, mutually satisfying, but not particularly long-term sexual experience, the more experienced he is the more likely he is to value sexual confidence and forthrightness in a woman.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2011 • 81 posts Report Reply

  • Max Rose, in reply to Sacha,

    Does not compute. Either the gap is long or it isn't.

    Let's assume that opportunities* are independent of current relationship status, which is the hypothesis in question. To make things easier, let's assume that they're reasonably equally distributed in time* *, at a rate of x passes per year: let x=4 for the purposes of argument. Since I mentioned serial monogamists, let's assume that when you do get an opportunity, it results in a reasonably long-term relationship, say 2 years.

    Thus, during every two-year relationship, you'd encounter roughly 8 opportunities. But when you're single and looking for a relationship, the only opportunities you get are the ones you take, so you'd remember the three months or so of unhappy singledom with no passes, followed by the start of a relationship. The answer to “Where were they all when I was single?” would be that they're always there, but as soon as you find one, you cease to be single.

    It's a fairly artificial model, and doesn't apply to people who like being single or who aren't monogamous, but it's a possible explanation for how some people could think they attract more attention when they're taken even if there were no difference in the (ahem) pass rate.


    (* For the sake of this argument I'll define "opportunities" as "occasions where someone you might potentially be interested in expresses some degree of interest in you". I'll omit passes from people you have no interest, since they're not likely to trigger the “Where were they all when I was single?” response.)

    (* * someone more statistically literate than I might want to comment on the relationship between Poisson distributions and the "it never rains but it pours" effect.)

    Wellington • Since Sep 2011 • 81 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Max Rose,

    you'd remember the three months or so of unhappy singledom with no passes, followed by the start of a relationship.

    different worlds, is all I can say to that assumption

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16659 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Sacha,

    but I do grasp your logic now, thanks

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16659 posts Report Reply

  • Max Rose, in reply to Sacha,

    different worlds, is all I can say to that assumption

    Certainly! It's very much a hypothetical situation, though based upon a not-uncommon type of person.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2011 • 81 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Max Rose,

    a not-uncommon type of person

    someone who can reliably translate any interest from others into a relationship with them

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16659 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    Can we make this thread the cricket one? That wouldn't make me a bad person ... would it?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3389 posts Report Reply

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