Hard News: So long, and thanks for all the fish ...
362 Responses
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Sacha, in reply to
Key's swingers
unfortunate mental image :)
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Sacha, in reply to
a serious party with serious business policy
Green party economic policy page.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I personally can’t wait for the day where each and every piece of legislation must garner wide support from multiple parties who each represent multiple views. And that may mean Laboour/National one day and Labour/Green/Mana another day. Yes fewer laws would be passed but I don’t see that as a bad thing.
Huh? That’s pretty much what the support arrangements have been all along!
They’re not coalitions. Except for Labour + Progressives they’ve all been formal support agreements on confidence and supply. The former is about the legitimacy of actually governing and the latter is the right to raise a Budget. They’re both essential to any intention of governing for three years. No government sets out on a plan without ensuring it has the right to govern.
They do not mean that the support parties have to vote with the government on everything, and we’ve seen the minor parties exercise that right repeatedly. Or, in the case of Peter Dunne and the GCSB bill, not.
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Sacha, in reply to
isn’t this what MMP was supposed to do?
When politicians get beyond childish tribalism, yes. Takes more maturity to approach policy based on its quality rather than who proposed it.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Even more crazy talk: Perhaps we all would have gotten used to the idea that it’s not Ragnarok if (shock! horror!) the Government of the day occasionally can’t pass bills. FFS, isn’t this what MMP was supposed to do?
Same as per what I said to Bart. Apart from Labour + Jim, no agreement we’ve seen has guaranteed the passage of anything beyond confidence and supply.
Actually, that’s not true: the Maori Party’s agreement was clearly based on a repeal of the Seabed and Foreshore Act, so it did additionally bind the government to that. But that’s in the nature of negotiated agreements. Nothing has ever bound support parties to voting for every bill the government puts up. Ever.
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Could be worse. :)
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Same as per what I said to Bart.
Fine, perhaps you could explain that to the Press Gallery. If a Government Bill is lost (or withdrawn or substantially changed) it’s not the end of the bleeding world unless it’s a matter of confidence or supply. And even there, I’d respectfully suggest even Winnie at his most ragingly ego-manical would think very carefully about denying supply. There are non-trivial political and electoral risks in having to explain to people why you've prevented the government from paying the bills.
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Can't think of anything sensible to say on this turn of events other than that I'd personally change back to voting Labour if it's Cunliffe. If it's someone else, I'd need to be convinced, but Robertson seems pretty good and I doubt his sexual orientation would be a major factor in the Labour turnout in this day and age of homophobes having NZ First to vote for anyway. What it might do is compromise chances of a deal with NZ First, though, which still looks necessary.
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Sacha, in reply to
which still looks necessary
Only if Labour and the Greens don't get a good enough share of the total vote between em to surpass Nats + Winston.
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BenWilson, in reply to
Yup, which is how it's looking at the moment. This could change, of course, and I sure hope it does.
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Brent Jackson, in reply to
After all, by implication, it suggests the views and beliefs of those who voted for them can be similarly denigrated.
Just because one voted Green, doesn't mean one supports their so-called "loony" (ie non-evidence based) policy. For years their anti-GMO was a show-stopper for me. But after "loony" (ie non-evidence based) policy from other parties surpassed that of the Greens, it made the Greens more attractive to me.
I wish a lot more people would use the policy comparison tools before the election to actually determine which party most closely aligned to their actual ideology.
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Hebe, in reply to
unfortunate mental image :)
Sorry. Hope it doesn't lead to nightmares, or envy :-)
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Sacha, in reply to
This could change
It had better, or what's the point of rearranging the deckchairs.
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BenWilson, in reply to
It had better, or what’s the point of rearranging the deckchairs
They want the government. That does not necessarily mean the Greens as their only partner. They could make sufficient ground to gain the government and still come a long way short of not needing NZF.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
I'd like everyone to get along to form the next Government.. Unfortunately Nactional have never done that for me so the opposition all together must make good Government in my eyes and must please a lot of people somehow. There's bits of the Greens (hat tip Bart) that aren't the be all for me (hat tip Chris's). There's bits that NZF do too but I've met Peters and his lady and I think they are Nationalistic but not prejudice.There' lots I don't love about NZF .I do feel their MP's really love this country and would put our best interests first. Hone, he cares in his way, so I'd like the opposition to unite to save us from the current mob in the best interest of our health and well being. Let's face it, together all the opposition Parties can win 2014
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81stcolumn, in reply to
"Dale Shearer" giggle.....
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Has someone already posted this piece of brilliance ? How I wish all political speeches were so beautifully sung…!
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Gareth Swain, in reply to
Has someone already posted this piece of brilliance ? How I wish all political speeches were so beautifully sung…!
Aaaaaaaaahahahahaha!
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Henry Barnard, in reply to
Only last week that was manifested in Labour’s refusal to support Green MP Catherine Delahunty’s bill to clean up the heavily polluted Tarawera River. The decision by Labour to block vote against was criticised by many clean water enthusiasts. I hope the new leadership will be more willing to side with the environment
Completely agree. It will be interesting to see what emerges on the leadership hustings about the Labour/Green relationship. During the Shearer/Cunliffe leadership road show in 2011 a defining moment for me was the way two responded to a question about that relationship: Shearer quite clearly identifying the Greens as an enemy that needed to be fought and Cunliffe talking about cooperation.
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There's this in the Green's Health Policy:
Have particular regard to the potential public health risks of excessive fluoride consumption via community water supplies.
The science around floridation so clear (PDF - Ministry of Health epidemiological survey): the risks are minimal or non-existent, and the benefits are stonkingly clear.
It's the anti-science / anti-evidence tendency of (some) Green poiicy that puts me off. As someone said up-thread, I don't think the Greens can shout "Science!" when it comes to climate change, and then ignore it when they (some of their members) don't like the results.
By way of disclosure, I'm pretty active in the Labour Party too: I'm at the Women's Sector conference this weekend.
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Deborah: My reading of the policy (thanks for the link) is that any risk is labelled "potential" while the benefits are labelled as a given. I do agree that any risks currently recognised are tiny. Too tiny to bother mentioning?
The focus seems to not be anti-science, rather focused on the argument of public benefit versus ones right to opt-out where feasible.
Their comments on fluoridated water being used to mix baby formula seem science based as well: http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/safety/infant_formula.htm
There's a current study being undertaken looking at whether there's evidence for developmental issues associated with fluoride in NZ, so in the next year or so there should be some more evidence on NZ-specific issues or the absence thereof.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10895675
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Hebe, in reply to
this piece of brilliance
Brilliant: thanks Lilith.
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Ian Dalziel, in reply to
more bass (less snapper)...
this piece of brilliance
Wonderful!
How art is made, indeed!
quickly, intuitively and to
capture a moment...I'm sure the crowd-funded opera
Hansard A quest down power's dark paths can't be far away...
...meanwhile where is a worthy vehicle (beyond the net), like Media3 f'rinstance, that could give legs to these guys at an incubator stage, to go explore the duets and mini operettas of Question-time and its cast of aspersions...
Not just the Concert Program, has to be wider...
is student radio still having fun?I'm sure there's always room for
a G&S version of GoT (or WoW)... -
Matthew Poole, in reply to
a deal with NZ First, though, which still looks necessary.
Not so much. If Key can manage not to have a cup of tea with Banks just before the election, Winston may well vanish back into political purgatory while his votes are distributed amongst the other parties. NZ First has not polled above 5% since shortly after the election, IIRC.
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
It’s the anti-science / anti-evidence tendency of (some) Green poiicy that puts me off.
If anything, anti-fluoridation campaigns had their origins in Red Scare McCarthyism.
And while the Greens have had their fair share of Gaian cultism, it's comparatively benign when the antitheses happen to be Intelligent Design, the Prosperity Gospel, abstinence, the War on Drugs, Project for a New American Century...
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