Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak

183 Responses

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  • Hilary Stace, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    What a good idea

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3213 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    A national mood crystal? (Goes all black when the All Blacks lose...)

    ... Looking over Carol Green's long list linked to by Lilith upthread, there were at least 10 designs already submitted that were

    very obviously better than 35 of the 40 on the long list

    !

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1921 posts Report Reply

  • mpledger, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    <q>

    What about the law of nature that change is the only constant?

    Are you suggesting a flag that evolves over time, printed on some kind of intelligent fabric that alters colour and shape with seasons …
    </q>

    I still think we should have a flag made by Lenticular printing
    ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenticular_printing )
    that changes as it moves in the wind.

    Super cool for the 21rst century.

    Since Oct 2012 • 97 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    The Sting...

    That should sit nicely with what John Key Inc. wants

    I know...
    ...it's the worry that us gaming the system has been taken into consideration by their gaming of the system - the looong con!
    Oh what to do?
    Woe ist moi...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to mpledger,

    ...a flag made by Lenticular printing

    I get it!
    A pencil case flag for the easily 'lead'?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • Sue,

    nope, nope, nope.

    If you subscribe to the theory that a flag defines a nation

    Are we a bicultural society or are we a multicultural society?
    are we a colonial society or are we postcolonial?
    are we something else?

    i don't know, i don't know enough to know. I know there are very wise people out there who study and think about things like this where are their voices in the flag change?

    while red peak might be the triumph of social media while i might even like it, i think giving it my vote deny's our country a proper sit down & discussion about who we are, and what that means. Then how that could be defined in a flag.

    The nationwide engagement programme never had space for this so i'll be voting no change, anything else (even if i like it) is a bit of a waste of time

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 527 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    The T-shirt analogy is false.

    With the T-shirt you are the only person wearing it, you are not deciding for the entire population which T-shirt they will wear.

    With the T-shirt you are spending your personal income not the income of the entire country.

    Bad analogy is bad.

    I did what I could within George’s frame of reference to correct his misinterpretation of Labour’s proposed selection process, which I feel is important and has been widely misrepresented and misunderstood. ‘You’ can be singular or plural, there was no mention of any financial transaction and it’s not uncommon to use the singular to refer to items in a uniform:

    The All Blacks jersey for the 2015 Rugby World Cup pays homage to the ‘Originals’ All Blacks team, but is the most technologically advanced yet, maker adidas says.

    An alternative interpretation of this sentence could equate to a very chilly time indeed for the bulk of our lads.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • william blake, in reply to Sue,

    I think these are some of the questions that need to be acknowledged in the debate over a new flag.

    Constitutionally NZ/Aotearoa is bi cultural, composed of tangata whenua and manuhiri. And given that this constitutional fact is disputed and dishonoured I would say we aren't yet post colonial.

    Since Mar 2010 • 380 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Why can't manuhiri be multicultural? Come to that, why can't tangata whenua be multicultural - because there are many individuals who have heritage other than Maori and British?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Hooton, in reply to Bevan,

    Read the link at the top of Russell's post.
    It explains the Maori and European (British) aspects of Red Peak.

    Has even a single Maori leader publicly supported Red Peak and agreed with the "Maori aspects" of it, or has this Maori story just been made up by liberal Pakeha from Grey Lynn and Aro Valley working in the design industry?

    Auckland • Since Aug 2007 • 194 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Matthew Hooton,

    Has even a single Maori leader publicly supported Red Peak and agreed with the "Maori aspects" of it, or has this Maori story just been made up by liberal Pakeha from Grey Lynn and Aro Valley working in the design industry?

    You're seriously saying that it's necessary to engage a rent-a-kaumatua in order to creatively reference the concept of Rangi and Papa in a very simplified form? What you appear to be preaching is plain old cultural apartheid.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4592 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    He obviously didn't viset Grey Lynn when I was growing up.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to Matthew Hooton,

    The Maori party voted for it to be added to the referendum, or do you not count actually voting to add it as support of Maori leaders?

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Idiot/Savant chimes in on the politics.

    the Greens have consistently supported the flag process from the beginning (while trying to improve it, as is their way).

    That's obviously not Labour's position. Big deal. They're different parties, so they disagree. And if Labour were adults, they'd accept that and move on to talking about how they can work together on the huge areas of political ground where they do agree. The fact that they can't, and that they're still demanding absolute subservience from their potential partners, is exactly why they're unfit to be in government. Because if you can't handle your party relationships in opposition, you're sure as shit not going to be able to do it when in office.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Danyl sees an upside.

    One of the defining moments in John Key’s rise to popularity as opposition leader was when he made a deal with Helen Clark to support the Bradford smacking amendment. Key ‘rescued’ Clark, much to the outrage of National Party partisans, but he also transformed himself from an opposition leader to a potential Prime Minister. The public isn’t really interested in politicians yelling nonsense at each other.
    ...
    The Greens ‘did’ something, which is hard to do in opposition and some persuadable voters will give them points for it.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19705 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    The Greens ‘did’ something, which is hard to do in opposition and some persuadable voters will give them points for it.

    That would be unfunny if it wasn't, seriously - only about choosing a flag design.

    John keys support of the labour party's Priministers - Green Party - privet bill from one of its MPs, is different enough to be ignored as a comparison.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to David Hood,

    The Maori party voted for it to be added to the referendum, or do you not count actually voting to add it as support of Maori leaders?

    With over 100 Iwi I'd wager that the Maori Party had no time to consult them all . Maybe they tried a straw poll.
    Iwi of NZ. Glorious Individual Maori Iwi. So no, support by the Maori party doesn't carry the weight you may think it does within the context. It just carries National over the threshold every time they are needed.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    The Greens ‘did’ something, which is hard to do in opposition

    That’s a bold spin.

    A flag designer who dipped out on the shortlist claims to have conned the Red Peak petition, signing up as broadcasters Mike Hosking, Duncan Garner and Paul Henry and NZ First leader Winston Peters.

    Grant McLachlan has provided evidence to prove his claim, with video footage showing him repeatedly signing up as himself and the four household names.

    […]

    In a stunt designed to undermine the petition, Mr McLachlan said he signed up 12 times before adding Garner, Henry, Hosking and Mr Peters to the petition.

    Red Peak will cost $380,000 to go on ballot

    The inclusion of Red Peak would cost another $380,000, with the development and testing of changes to the vote processing system set to cost $100,000.

    Redesigning, reprinting and retranslating materials about enrolment and voting that referenced four voting options would cost $280,000.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to chris,

    Which makes it easier to interpret the result as partly Red Pique
    with the design signifying a middle digit, uplifted high

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1921 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to chris,

    Redesigning, reprinting and retranslating materials about enrolment and voting that referenced four voting options would cost $280,000.

    See what happens when you rush things?.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to linger,

    I'm totally feeling that Linger. Stacy Kirk takes things to the 6th ray:

    While my dislike for Red Peak runs about as deep as the tectonic plates that don't form the supposed story behind the flag, including it in the referendum was the right decision.

    Democracy does sometimes win. And it wins when people take it seriously.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • chris, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    I see what happens when a thing that doesn’t have potential to save money by most probably eliminating the need for a second referendum is rushed on the basis that it’s easier for people to get behind a colourful image than a reconfiguration of approach.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to steven crawford,

    John keys support of the labour party's Priministers - Green Party - privet bill from one of its MPs, is different enough to be ignored as a comparison

    And I'm still trying to see where Labour MP's are trashing the Greens that apparently everything in The Herald says they are doing and now Savant's decided some commenter in a paper has defined Labours position which is actually different to the Greens and always has been. Their common ground was the mutual support of calling for what the people of NZ wanted. Save money ask if we want change. Greens changed their mind and saw fit to advise Labour. As simple as that.
    Shit stirring is soo much better in the Herald.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to chris,

    I see what happens when a thing that doesn’t have potential to save money by most probably eliminating the need for a second referendum is rushed on the basis that it’s easier for people to get behind a colourful image than a reconfiguration of approach.

    That contains a great metiforical. It reminds me of the Green party’s campaign use of glossy prints of children without shoes on there feet. What the hell was there graphic design contractor thinking?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Shit stirring is soo much better in the Herald.

    From the Herald's recent fawning editorial:
    "But at least John Key had a twinkle in his eye when he did an about-face on Red Peak"
    Someone appears to have substituted "twinkle in his eye" for "hair up his arse".

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4592 posts Report Reply

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