Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak

183 Responses

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  • Daniel Wilton,

    I am late to the party.

    Has anyone asked what they are going to do with the 1.7 million pieces of paper that have been printed for the referendum.

    I understand that this cost (potentially in the area of $500k) may have been avoided if the PM didn't drag his toes last week?

    Wellington • Since Jan 2009 • 54 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to simon g,

    That’s been a recurring theme in online debates over the past few weeks. I’ve lost count of the number of people who have said “Anybody could get 50,000 signatures, it’s easy to rig online petitions”, etc.

    I signed one of these online petitions, once. Then the partition organization, started spamming me with more petitions. Its probably a robot. I had the same problem when I signed a Greenpeace petition on the street. They used my personal details to phone spam me trying to get money. And they would not easily take no for awnser.

    Its ironic, that the opposition didn’t take a less is more better design approach, and do absolutely nothing. The national party should have been let to hover itself down a black hole over this.

    Caution: I am not a trained political adviser! I understand I know bugger all about applied politics.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4341 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to steven crawford,

    They used my personal details to phone spam me trying to get money. And they would not easily take no for awnser.

    I guess it's the professionalisation of this stuff. I had a Forest & Bird collector come to the door once. I stated outright that I wasn't going to sign up to anything he had with him, or give any money direct through him, and at best might choose to donate via other means in my own time. He still worked at me for a good 30 minutes of his time, maybe because I hadn't shut the door in his face, and during which we had some fascinating discussions about any number of things. After that he seemed fairly rattled that I wasn't offering any money. Hopefully he learned something, though.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Can I suggest getting ‘Laser Kiwi’ and the Black & White ‘Girl in Profile with Silver Fern Ponytail’.
    Thanks Berinthia

    Yes would consider those two but it is a matter of finding them made up into proper quality flags, which can also be quite expensive. Not sure whether they would look very good flying either.

    Red Peak is now its own business.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3205 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to chris,

    The Greens were presented with the option of either showing solidarity with Labour’s hypothetical proposal which could have potentially saved millions of pages of paper, litres of ink and petrol and kilowatts of electricity or the chance to satisfy a tiny movement running a lucrative fundraising campaign whose petitioned numbers amounted to about 20% of the party’s popular vote.

    Well, it could also be framed as they presented with the option of 4 choices and no first round decider, or five choices and no first round decider. Because there were not the numbers for a first round decider, otherwise the process would not have been gridlocked.

    You will notice John Key shifted ground on this as their is no agreements for all parties to endorse the process, which was an early demand. Strategically, Labour might have been better to opt for "of no red peak or red peak, we support red peak. We think the process is flawed and there should be a yes/no on the first, but since national has dropped it's weird demand that we could only get Red Peak on if we endorse their process, we are happy to support Red Peak without endorsing the process. We will fight on to try and get the voices of the majority of New Zealanders who do not want change heard and avoid a colossal waste of money in this vanity project"

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    These are reasonable points David.

    Personally, up until Russel Norman’s seppuku I was 100% likely to have given the Greens my party vote in 2017, I’m less than enamoured with what I’ve seen over the last two months, my position is better expressed in the Gordon Campbell article that Deborah linked to over the page:

    It is not as though the Greens came up with a novel, deal-breaking position: instead, it has simply delivered the government the escape route that it wanted, on terms where it is agreeing to enable John Key to block Labour’s attempt to stop more money being wasted on a second referendum in March. Shaw has spent all year denying the allegations that he’s really a closet Nat in disguise. Yesterday’s effort won’t help on that score.

    Mawkland • Since Jan 2010 • 1302 posts Report Reply

  • Dinah Dunavan, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    +1. I feel the whole Red Peak saga has been an exercise in mass manipulation. I wouldn't have selected it from the short list. I get the feeling that we're supposed to think that getting it onto the votting papers is a 'win'.

    Dunedin • Since Jun 2008 • 186 posts Report Reply

  • simon g, in reply to Dinah Dunavan,

    I feel the whole Red Peak saga has been an exercise in mass manipulation.

    Who by? Toby Manhire Inc?

    In a world where corporate mass manipulation is coming out of our ears, this was anything but.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1324 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Daniel Wilton,

    Attachment

    Has anyone asked what they are going to do with the 1.7 million pieces of paper that have been printed for the referendum.

    Pulp the lot!
    They'll want to print the next run on sustainably retrieved swamp kauri any way...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7896 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to steven crawford,

    I know bugger all about applied politics.

    I think it involves liberal smearings of tar and feathers...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7896 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Pulp the lot!
    They’ll want to print the next run on sustainably retrieved swamp kauri any way…

    I get it:) yes, recycling is good!

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4341 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to steven crawford,

    Its ironic, that the opposition didn’t take a less is more better design approach, and do absolutely nothing. The national party should have been let to hover itself down a black hole over this.

    You would think so. They can't seem to resist the prospect of publicity, even the bad sort.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19697 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    I think it involves liberal smearings of tar and feathers…

    Trust you to say something serios between jokes.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4341 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Sacha,

    You would think so. They can’t seem to resist the prospect of publicity, even the bad sort

    I confess on our behalf, to goading them a little bit.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4341 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Dinah Dunavan,

    I feel the whole Red Peak saga has been an exercise in mass manipulation. I wouldn’t have selected it from the short list. I get the feeling that we’re supposed to think that getting it onto the votting papers is a ‘win’.

    Early on I wasn’t averse to debating and possibly changing the flag, but after all this I feel the entire flag selection process has been an exercise in politically motivated cronyism, long before the latest development. That may not be true, but with the way the whole thing’s been conducted, helped by the PM not being able to shut up about his own preferences, it’s created a perception that everyone was simply going to be asked “which rendition of the PM’s favourite silver fern do you like most for the national marketing logo?”

    The method for adding Red Peak is what it is, but so many people rallied around it as a direct consequence of the mess that preceeded it. Apart from giving voters another choice which is less of a corporate logo and at least resolving an argument that everyone’s been wasting lots of effort on (I hope), I’m struggling to imagine how it’s made things any worse.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to steven crawford,

    they deserve that.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19697 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    I think I might put Red Peak at first preference, if just that it is less awful than the other four, no disrespect to the designers intended. I am a little tempted to spoil my ballot, to send some sort of signal, but then on the other hand, this kind of signal is usually ignored at best.

    Come next year, I don't see myself voting for any of the five over the current. Ask me again when we become a republic.

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 1021 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Newsworthy (TV3) has created a Red Peak alphabet

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3205 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    So, how many of you have changed from Hypno flag to Red Peak Flag ? That should sit nicely with what John Key Inc. wants. Breaking up the Hypno Flag momentum should bring Johnny's silver fern right through the middle. If in doubt ,get any opposition to National squabbling again.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to chris,

    your existing T-shirt

    The T-shirt analogy is false.

    With the T-shirt you are the only person wearing it, you are not deciding for the entire population which T-shirt they will wear.

    With the T-shirt you are spending your personal income not the income of the entire country.

    Bad analogy is bad.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Breaking up the Hypno Flag momentum should bring Johnny’s silver fern right through the middle.

    Wouldn’t that depend on how people rank their choices in the preferential vote? If everyone who ranks either flag first ranks the other immediately after (possibly not a reliable assumption), then all of those votes flood to the other one as soon as either is eliminated.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Do we really need just one?

    Nope. But apparently because that was the way it was done 500 years ago we have to do it that way now.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to Bart Janssen,

    That surely is a flawed argument. What about the law of nature that change is the only constant?

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3205 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    You know what I'd really like to see at this point. Someone, perhaps a political party, perhaps simply someone with some money, anyway someone get say a dozen of the top design/artist gurus to come up with say 10 different flag designs and just throw them out there for the public to look at.

    My bet it that 10 such designs would be very obviously better than 35 of the 40 on the long list.

    I'd also really really like it if people stopped thinking as if it was the 1500s and you needed a simple flag that was recognisable from both sides from across a 1000m battle field or over 5000m of sea. Because it is 2015 now!

    But that's just me.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    What about the law of nature that change is the only constant?

    Are you suggesting a flag that evolves over time, printed on some kind of intelligent fabric that alters colour and shape with seasons ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

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