Speaker by Various Artists

Read Post

Speaker: The Brexlection

88 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 Newer→ Last

  • Russell Brown,

    Remainers, on the other hand, find themselves in a situation where the hated Liberal Democrats and Tony Blair appear to be the only people who represent them. Yes, that is as bad as it sounds. It’s like finding out United Future and David Seymour are the only people who agree with you.

    It seems almost callous of me to have published this somewhere my UK-based friends might see it and start crying. Sorry, friends.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22029 posts Report Reply

  • linger,

    How does 52% translate to "overwhelming support" for Brexit?
    (I mean, apart from through using a nondemocratic FPP electoral system to skew the support within Parliament.)

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1615 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    "...Remainers, on the other hand, find themselves in a situation where the hated Liberal Democrats and Tony Blair appear to be the only people who represent them..."

    if the tone of pro-Remain liberal publications like the Guardian are any guide to the actual mood of the hard core remain supporters, it is little wonder they find it hard to find a political party that will endorse them. The Guardianista remainers come across as a bunch of self pitying whiners who still refuse to accept the outcome of the referendum, whilst using every weapon of intellectual snobbery at their disposal to paint Brexit supports as nostalgic little Englander morons. At the same time, there is a ceaseless parade of vindictive opinion pieces everywhere from the same crowd doing everything in their power to ridicule and humiliate Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters for daring not to be a member of their cosy Blairite club.

    For all the Fascism of the Daily Mail, the pro-Europe Chardonay socialists of the remainer chattering middle classes are just as guilty to contributing to the polarisation of British politics.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2089 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Corbyn-Labour not only voted for Brexit, but also for an early election. Repeat: this is only happening because Labour voted for it to happen.

    Worth bearing in mind when the fingers get pointed in June.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1101 posts Report Reply

  • maxy,

    Then there’s Northern Ireland, who haven’t got a power-sharing agreement at Stormont following the resignation and death of Martin McGuinness.

    May be nit-picking but that wasn't the reason, it was co-incidental. There was a big bust up over a financial scandal which led to the recent elections, and Sinn Fein and the DUP haven't been able to reach a power sharing agreement

    Since Apr 2017 • 3 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson,

    It’s like finding out United Future and David Seymour are the only people who agree with you.

    I think "NZ First and Don Brash" would be a better analogy, considering that United Future is a 1 MP party, and David Seymour is a current MP. Tony Blair hasn't been an MP since 2007.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 588 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Brent Jackson,

    I think "NZ First and Don Brash" would be a better analogy

    Which kinda makes it worse.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22029 posts Report Reply

  • John Palethorpe, in reply to Brent Jackson,

    I was trying to soften the blow. That said Winnie and Brash are more Farage and UKIP than anything else.

    Auckland • Since May 2015 • 83 posts Report Reply

  • Nick Russell, in reply to simon g,

    Corbyn-Labour not only voted for Brexit, but also for an early election

    Not sure they had much choice. Think about the reaction if Labour had opposed an early election.

    As for Brexit - this is about the only issue on which I have some sympathy for Corbyn. As far as I can see he has little personal support for the EU, or rather its institutions, regarding as instruments of neoliberal austerity (think Greece). And Brexit turned out to be far more popular amongst rank and file Labour voters than a lot of people expected, particularly in heartland constituencies in the Midlands and further north. So even if he wanted to, I doubt Corbyn could stand on an anti-Brexit pro-EU platform at the election. That's why you will hear him talk about almost anything else during the campaign - health, education, you name it, just not Brexit.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 95 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens, in reply to simon g,

    The Labour working class heartland is as split on Brexit as the rest of the UK population, a fact that appears to be completely impenetrable to the frankly anti-democratic remainers who demand Labour commits electoral suicide by surrendering it’s heartland to UKIP and the conservatives (which would be the reality of what would happen under the UK’s ridiculously antiquated FPP democracy) to satisfy the high dudgeon of it’s fickle pan-European middle class urban supporters who will miss their hassle-free holidays in Tuscany.

    But the collapse in the Labour vote is not due to Corbyn’s position of accepting the referendum outcome whilst seeking significant accomodations with the EU. The collapse in the Labour vote dates from and is the direct outcome of the failed chicken coup by the Blairite dominate UK PLP. Insofar as many of those Blairite cuckoo candidates seem poised to either stand down or lose their seats if Labour takes a bath this election, there may be a silver lining in a Labour defeat. A Labour defeat that will be a Pyrrhic Blairite victory which will see their faction blamed, diminished and decimated but will also (probably) see Corbyn gone and replaced by a leader less likely to be subjected to a unrelentless campaign of character assassination from the establishment media seems the best the left can hope for this election, unless the polls (which are in lockstep with the middle class liberal Cassandras of the liberal broadsheets) are wrong.

    As for voting for the dissolution – I doubt Labour had a serious choice. What message does denying an early election because you are to chicken send?

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2089 posts Report Reply

  • Nick Russell,

    One other thing. I have the nagging suspicion that the confidence being displayed by the likes of Corbyn and Diane Abbott is genuine. Not because they think they are going to win the election, but because it will result in annihilation of the Blairite wing of the Parliamentary party. It appears they would rather control a toothless opposition of say 150 MPs than govern. I don't think Corbyn will resign if he loses spectacularly, because he isn't really trying to win control of Parliament - he is trying to win control of his own party and he is more likely to do that by losing than winning.

    I hope I'm wrong about that.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 95 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    To Tom/Nick

    Of course they had a choice. The reaction would have been predictable: wild vilification, by the same people who vilify them already. Then the noise would fade with the next issue ("events, dear boy, events"). Saying they had no choice is absurd, a real abdication of leadership.

    They made a strategic decision, which can be defended (but I wouldn't). However, saying the opposition has no choice but to vote with the government is the same mentality as "support our troops" - it's a cop-out, and it's wrong. Doing difficult things comes with the job.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1101 posts Report Reply

  • James Dunne,

    But that would require Jeremy Corbyn to be a competent politician and to have the political instincts of a walnut.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2013 • 24 posts Report Reply

  • Nick Russell, in reply to James Dunne,

    Ok, I'll regret asking I'm sure, but... what exactly are the political instincts of yer average walnut?

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 95 posts Report Reply

  • linger, in reply to Nick Russell,

    I suspect the intention of the walnut comparison is something like "to have at least the appearance of a brain"

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1615 posts Report Reply

  • Nick Russell, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    The collapse in the Labour vote dates from and is the direct outcome of the failed chicken coup by the Blairite dominate UK PLP. Insofar as many of those Blairite cuckoo candidates seem poised to either stand down or lose their seats if Labour takes a bath this election, there may be a silver lining in a Labour defeat.

    Just checking but would these Blairites be the ones that won 3 consecutive general elections as opposed to the Militant/Momentum types who have won... ummm... nothing. At all. Anywhere. Ever.

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 95 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Nick Russell,

    juglan concepts...

    what are the political instincts of yer average walnut?

    convoluted?
    shellshocked?
    oleaginous?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7321 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Nick Russell,

    would these Blairites be the ones that won 3 consecutive general elections

    leaving what legacy?

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7321 posts Report Reply

  • Nick Russell, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    A mixed one. Iraq on the one hand, the end of an armed insurgency in Northern Ireland on the other. And over a decade of economic growth. As Tom Watson pointed out at the Labour Party conference last year, the party achieved a lot in its 3 terms of Government. It wasn't all bad, and much better than 3 more terms of Conservative Government would have been.

    What do you think the legacy of Corbyn and Momentum will be?

    Wellington • Since Jul 2008 • 95 posts Report Reply

  • maxy, in reply to Nick Russell,

    I think if Blair hadn't followed blindly into Iraq, his legacy may be quite different.

    Since Apr 2017 • 3 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Nick Russell,

    The Remains of the Day...
    or the Day of the Remains

    What do you think the legacy of Corbyn and Momentum will be?

    I'd like to think that they'd wrest the wheel from the blinkered driver just before the bus went off the cliff, but they'd have to get up front near the driver first - meanwhile the conductor has jumped off the back platform with the takings - Austerity Binge redux!
    :- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7321 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    I quite like many of the policies Jeremy Corbyn is talking about. In many ways he is being a radical left winger in the spirit of the historic reforming Labour Party. He is also the leader of one of the biggest left wing popular global movements - doesn't the Labour Party have something like 500.000 members? Whey does he also have to be telegenic and personable?

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3078 posts Report Reply

  • martinb, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    Bingo for me.

    The Labour Party is in disarray because Tony Blair thinks he's still prime minister and that there can not be any left wing faction. I can't think of any serious former NZ PM so keen to be involved in current politics. They have let go.

    Corbyn picked up a swell of enthused and energised youngsters. If Labour had any serious politicians, rather than do everything in their power to destroy his candidacy they would have allied with him, rather than throw their toys from the cot. A government by cabinet is not a presidency. The PM doesn't do everything.

    This is not the days of the closed shop, it is the days of Bernie Sanders, Brexit and Trump. Corbyn was made to fight the good fight here, but not alone. The party have failed their new generation, through arrogance and ideological blindness.

    Corbyn could be the right answer. Or could have been.

    Yet the left is a bigger worry than the Tories. And a bigger worry than Brexit. Which is why Labour is failing.

    All these clever Blairites who once won some elections quite some time ago are still looking at their black and white photos of past glories. For starters they have lost 2 or 3 or how ever many leadership elections within their own party. THEY CAN NOT CONVINCE THEIR OWN PARTY. Yet, they insist it be done and done until the party does it right.

    So yes, in terms of hubris and arrogance, they are winning unparalleled.

    Tom Watson. I wonder what his legacy will be. A man who could have bridged the divide, but didn't really want to perhaps?

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 194 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    To me the main issue with Blair is that he paved the way for Brexit, in the same way that Obama paved the way for Trump.

    The ordinary working and middle class people have had their living standards and job security steadily eroded since the 80s. Politicians like Blair (Obama, Clark, Little) have a basic platform of being better enablers of capitalism - the concept being that while the 1% get massively wealther, "trickle down" makes ordinary people better off. This hasn't actually happened in the UK or the US, and it's only happened in NZ because (some of) the middle classes have had the benefit of house price inflation to gain an illusion of wealth.

    The result of this is a grumpy populace willing to vote for Brexit/Trump.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5494 posts Report Reply

  • martinb,

    and in France the choice seems remarkably similar- an ex-banker, friend to everyone, stands for nothing or Marianne le Pen.

    And isn't the developed world's working class issue that most of the manufacturing jobs have moved to China and poorer/low-cost nations, and mechanisation? Without any care to what might happen to the people who used to work?

    Feel like there needs to be an update to the musical Oklahoma for these modern times: the liberal and the leftie should be friends! God forbid the leftie wants to drive though, amirite?

    Auckland • Since Jul 2010 • 194 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 2 3 4 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.