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Speaker: The real problem with the ‘Kiwimeter’

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  • Hilary Stace,

    Thank you for this post. I have heard a lot about this survey from people concerned about the questions and poor methodology.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3213 posts Report Reply

  • Ianmac,

    Actually I cannot get the Survey to work on my Mac/Firefox so still in the dark.

    Bleneim • Since Aug 2008 • 135 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson,

    what TVNZ’s motives are in carrying out this kind of attitudinal research,

    My guess would be that the follow up survey is being done purely to "engage" the public, so as to increase TVNZ viewing. The data being captured is irrelevant, and probably of very little use.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 615 posts Report Reply

  • EJ,

    Somewhat disagree.

    The wording was "Māori should not receive any special treatment." I can't simply disagree with that statement because I take issue with the way it's phrased. Of course, I can tell that for the purposes of the survey, my views align with the "strongly disagree" button - but it's an uncomfortable fit. If someone said that statement to me in conversation, I'd respond "what do you mean by special treatment?", not "yes they do!" Whereas if the survey said for example "There should be no government policies targeted specifically at Maori" I could simply disagree.

    (Meanwhile, I gave up part way through the survey because it was too long and the kid woke with a nightmare)

    Wellington • Since Mar 2016 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • tony j ricketts,

    Why is this the first I have heard or read about this survey? If it is because I haven't watched anything on TVNZ this year, does that mean I am in a statistically negligible minority?

    wellington • Since Aug 2012 • 41 posts Report Reply

  • James Littlewood*,

    So, the name of the survey influences people's answers, the questions' wording influence people's answers, and the way the survey is explained confuses people, so also potentially influences people's answers.

    Actually, the introduction I saw said the survey is over, and that whatever they have on their website now simply invites us to profile ourselves against the results of that survey. Kina like the political compass thing a few years ago.

    Still, I'm only guessing, because "the tool" refuses to load on either Chrome or Safari. Which just leaves me free to wonder at the scientific veracity of surrounding the survey with story headlines:

    Australian cops adopt adorable kangaroo
    Family First hits out at gender neutral school bathrooms
    Sydney man attacks bus with windscreen wiper

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 410 posts Report Reply

  • James Littlewood*, in reply to tony j ricketts,

    does that mean I am in a statistically negligible minority?

    It might if the "survey" had adopted any kind of scientifically valid sampling that screened for media consumption.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 410 posts Report Reply

  • James Littlewood*, in reply to EJ,

    “Māori should not receive any special treatment.”

    WTF is "any special treatment"?

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 410 posts Report Reply

  • EJ, in reply to James Littlewood*,

    Exactly!

    Wellington • Since Mar 2016 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Will the use of the findings and the data by TVNZ be driven by a need for enlightenment, or a need for controversy and profit?

    Is the Pope Jewish, or ...?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10650 posts Report Reply

  • Tze Ming Mok, in reply to EJ,

    Yeah, I do agree that the scale would have been much better as 'How acceptable or unacceptable do you find this statement?', as this would have captured the realistic spread of attitudes towards the statement.

    SarfBank, Lunnin' • Since Nov 2006 • 154 posts Report Reply

  • Tze Ming Mok, in reply to James Littlewood*,

    Actually, the introduction I saw said the survey is over, and that whatever they have on their website now simply invites us to profile ourselves against the results of that survey. Kina like the political compass thing a few years ago.

    That's what I thought as well, except TVNZ is actually now reporting on the online survey results as the results of the 'Kiwimeter', touting sample sizes of 80-90,000. Clearly not the original survey of 10,000. So that's not what it seemed. The Privacy tab of the online quiz stated that TVNZ would be allowed to report your data in news coverage; although it didn't say that your actual answers comprised the 'Kiwimeter'.

    SarfBank, Lunnin' • Since Nov 2006 • 154 posts Report Reply

  • Moz, in reply to Ianmac,

    I cannot get the Survey to work on my Mac/Firefox so still in the dark.

    Bah, hitting "view post" clears the reply box. Russell!!!LL!L!L!

    I think they're selecting against technically literate people, except for morbidly curious ones. I found it works in IE, because I have IE in a virtual machine specifically for times like this. Unfortunately there's no "back" button, so if you accidentally double click, congrats you just answered two questions.

    * Immigration is a threat to New Zealand's culture.
    * No matter what circumstances you are born into, if you work hard enough you can be as successful as anyone else.
    * Sport is too much a part of New Zealand's national psyche.
    * Refugees should be welcomed in New Zealand.
    * New Zealand's British heritage should be central to its national identity.

    It doesn't seem to get better after that.

    Although eventually I made it to: YOUR CLOSEST FIT: Globalist
    (shouty in source) Along with 7% of Kiwis "Globalists believe they are as much a part of the world as they are part of New Zealand..."

    Which is accurate in that I regard that as a statement of the bleedin' obvious.

    Sydney, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 1229 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Here's the default TVNZ position: Chinese = immigrant. Kiwis = not ethnic Chinese.

    One News reports on Chinese New year, in 2016. Note the language used, the distinctions made.

    It's disturbing that such attitudes still prevail, and even more so that they go to air on our national - sorry, Kiwi - network.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1328 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    TVNZ fails to acknowledge the important distinctions between a self-selecting poll, and a properly sampled survey. The latter has much greater validity than the former.

    Generally, there is a great deal of rubbish research around at the moment, exacerbated by the ease of online clicking. SayItNZ is a prime example ...the sort of online form that declares 'This will take about 10 minutes' and 30 minutes later you are still trying to answer their dumb questions. Their latest one jumps from banal questions about flea treatment for pets, to attitudes to oil exploration in NZ. The people who design such rubbish research need to take a course in research design (a bit hot on this at the moment as I am currently teaching a Media Research course).

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2557 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    ...the important distinctions between a self-selecting poll, and a properly sampled survey.

    It's more than a decade since an online poll had Destiny Church poised to win several seats in the 2005 election. While the faithful may have dutifully clicked away online, the long since deregistered Destiny New Zealand managed to score only 0.62% of the total vote.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4592 posts Report Reply

  • James Littlewood*, in reply to Tze Ming Mok,

    except TVNZ is actually now reporting on the online survey results as the results of the 'Kiwimeter'

    Good grief, so they are. I see they've learned that Kiwis are fond of sport.

    I'm impressed by your attempts to apologise for it on the grounds that it's a worthy subject. But it's nonsense.

    HEY! What was the name of that household survey that the Nat government ran in about the year 2000, where they tried to manipulate the results to cut back the welfare budget?

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 410 posts Report Reply

  • Brent Jackson, in reply to Moz,

    Although eventually I made it to: YOUR CLOSEST FIT: Globalist

    Yeah, that's what I got as well - don't think it really sounded like me though. Second best fit seemed much more apt : Egalitarian - Along with 22% of Kiwis

    I'm guessing that my literal answers to some of their more stupidly-phrased questions confused it somewhat.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 615 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    survague...

    TVNZ fails to acknowledge the important distinctions between a self-selecting poll, and a properly sampled survey.

    Apparently I'm an 'Egalitarian' - but I had to end up putting in nonsense answers when no option I could identify with or against came up - and where was the 'neutral ground' - no opinion either way - field?

    ...and then when I'd finished I could take it again!!
    so hopefully my input is not collated.
    How do they get results from people without computers - many possibilities left out that way

    What a totally confusing way to go about things and then call it meaningful.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • Marc C,

    If this survey is run on the same basis as the kinds of polls that Duncan Garner sometimes presents on his ‘Drive Show’ after 3pm, then I would not give it much credit. I wonder how scientific it is. And with the poor informing we get from much of the MSM, can we talk about informed people making comments and giving answers that should have much merit?

    TVNZ’s reporting on some findings tonight did not really convince me that this was survey is of that much value. More infotainment than anything else, I fear.

    Akl • Since Oct 2012 • 437 posts Report Reply

  • Aaron Dick,

    I was part of the initial survey, I think. Done through Horizonpoll, certainly not called Kiwimeter at the time.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 14 posts Report Reply

  • Tze Ming Mok, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    TVNZ fails to acknowledge the important distinctions between a self-selecting poll, and a properly sampled survey. The latter has much greater validity than the former.

    Exactly. If you start with the equivalent of a 'Herald online poll', you can't weight your way to a representative sample. You can only make it slightly less crap than an unweighted sample.

    Vox Labs tweeted me to say that they are weighting the online Kiwimeter results. Cool story bro. Not going to help the massive self-selection problem of people selecting out of a survey about attitudes to national identity, based on their pre-existing attitudes to national identity...

    (a bit hot on this at the moment as I am currently teaching a Media Research course).

    PREACH, BROTHER.

    SarfBank, Lunnin' • Since Nov 2006 • 154 posts Report Reply

  • kw, in reply to EJ,

    This:

    To be fair, some of the NZAVS questions are a bit tricky for pedants as well, I vaguely remember a couple of gender questions making my eyes narrow. But I never mind putting in my two cents for the 50% of us whose aspirations differ.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2014 • 30 posts Report Reply

  • Kirk Serpes,

    Cheers for taking on the stupid. Yep other than the slightly outrage inducing questions there were also ones that were plain confusing, as in I didn't know what the meant. Stuff like "Do you support NZ intervention overseas"... as in Syria or in the Pacific Islands? Rather large difference, even assuming the point was trying to find out which people like bombing Muslims more than others.

    Auckland • Since May 2015 • 20 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac,

    I think these criticisms are pretty spot on. I almost didn't do it because, yes, I didn't want to be measured on "how much" I might be seen to be "kiwi".

    As for the other issues, I just realised I answered them along the lines of "how true is this statement to you?", although they weren't exactly phrased that way.

    As for the "Maori special treatment" question, again, I interpolated my response to the dog-whistle, and not to whatever "special treatment" might be deemed as (sure, let's go back to the days of no kohanga reo or land claim settlements!)

    I came out as a "globalist", which I'd say is pretty accurate, since I don't think NZ is currently that different or better than other OECD nations. The bits I'm proudest of - other than our still-damn-good human rights legislation - are the bits currently being eroded by the wonderful govt (similar to the trend around the world). Me, I like much of our culture - not so much the sports - and of course much of the parts of the country that aren't being converted to dairy paddocks are pretty damn scenic. (Yes, we need some dairy/beef/wool paddocks - but let's not race to the bottom with feedlots and irrigating/superphosing otherwise marginal land.)

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

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